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Old 04-14-2009, 12:48 PM   #1
Pittsbrat
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Default Some newbie q's here

New prospective owner here. We're looking at a new or late-model TM in lieu of a Class C. (I like the 3023, on paper anyway, and my wife prefers the 2720SL.) We have a couple of show dogs (one conformation, one agility) and go to shows every so often. We've been suffering through them in a tiny Coachmen popup with no lav, so you can guess how well that's going!

I'm curious how well the TM blanks outdoor sounds -- particularly dogs barking. Also, in moderate winds, do the walls shake or rattle? Any drafts?

Recently we bought my mother in law a Winnebago that she uses for dog shows. We'd rather have a trailer so we can have a vehicle at the show site, and a TM is ideal because we have an oversized, 32-foot-long garage that, unfortunately, has only an 8-by-8 door, so that means an upright or a motorhome would need to be stored at additional cost.

Finally, are there any other competitors to consider? I've found Hi-Lo, but their floor plans don't work and they're too heavy for my Honda Pilot. We'd like the ability to sleep at least 4, with a "living room" rather than just a bed and galley/dinette.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:19 PM   #2
Wavery
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Originally Posted by Pittsbrat View Post
New prospective owner here. We're looking at a new or late-model TM in lieu of a Class C. (I like the 3023, on paper anyway, and my wife prefers the 2720SL.) We have a couple of show dogs (one conformation, one agility) and go to shows every so often. We've been suffering through them in a tiny Coachmen popup with no lav, so you can guess how well that's going!

I'm curious how well the TM blanks outdoor sounds -- particularly dogs barking. Also, in moderate winds, do the walls shake or rattle? Any drafts?

Recently we bought my mother in law a Winnebago that she uses for dog shows. We'd rather have a trailer so we can have a vehicle at the show site, and a TM is ideal because we have an oversized, 32-foot-long garage that, unfortunately, has only an 8-by-8 door, so that means an upright or a motorhome would need to be stored at additional cost.

Finally, are there any other competitors to consider? I've found Hi-Lo, but their floor plans don't work and they're too heavy for my Honda Pilot. We'd like the ability to sleep at least 4, with a "living room" rather than just a bed and galley/dinette.
The TM is as quiet as any travel trailer and quieter than some. They're pretty well insulated. We've camped in 30MPH winds and slept right through it. We came from a Coleman Pop-Up so we know what you're concerned about. The TM is more like a hard-side travel trailer.

As for the Honda Pilot. You may be really pushing the limits to tow any TM fully loaded with passengers, fuel and cargo in that tow vehicle. Check-out what your GCWR (Gross COMBINED Weight Rating) is. Add up all of the goodies, fuel and passengers that you will be carrying in your combination. I think that you may be over-weight.

Pay little attention to the Tow Rating on the vehicle. That only tells you the Max weight that the vehicle is able to tow with no passengers and cargo, a 150 driver and 5 gal of gas (sometimes less).
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:38 PM   #3
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As for the Honda Pilot. You may be really pushing the limits to tow any TM fully loaded with passengers, fuel and cargo in that tow vehicle. Check-out what your GCWR (Gross COMBINED Weight Rating) is. Add up all of the goodies, fuel and passengers that you will be carrying in your combination. I think that you may be over-weight.
The book tells me I can haul a 3500 pound trailer with my typical load, and TM's website puts the 2720SL at under 2900 pounds (empty), so it seems doable. I've been towing boats etc for decades, so I have a pretty good idea how far I can (or should) go.
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Old 04-14-2009, 02:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Pittsbrat View Post
The book tells me I can haul a 3500 pound trailer with my typical load, and TM's website puts the 2720SL at under 2900 pounds (empty), so it seems doable. I've been towing boats etc for decades, so I have a pretty good idea how far I can (or should) go.
I have a 2005 TM 2720. When wet (water tank full) and loaded to go camping it weighs 3380 pounds on the TM axle. I did not weigh the tongue. My guess is that the total weight of my laoded TM is about 4,100 pounds.

46 gallons of water weight about 383 pounds. Leaving that out drops it to 3717. However, when leaving camp, unless you have a sewer connection, then some of that 383 pounds is in the holding tank until you dump it.

Some thing that I have that you may not need, meaning you can shave some weight:

roof air conditioner
awning
portable bbq
portable stove for cooking outside
2 batteries instead of one
generator
2 propane cylinders, when you could get by with one for a weekend
dishes
clothes
food
drinks
outdoor chairs
folding outdoor table
my private medicine cabinet (wink-wink)

I can't say that you should or could, but do not underestimate the weight of your stuff.

If you took a second car, you could put some of the stuff in the second car to spread the weight around. That only works for short trips.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:14 PM   #5
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46 gallons of water weight about 383 pounds. Leaving that out drops it to 3717. However, when leaving camp, unless you have a sewer connection, then some of that 383 pounds is in the holding tank until you dump it.

Some thing that I have that you may not need, meaning you can shave some weight:

roof air conditioner
awning
portable bbq
portable stove for cooking outside
2 batteries instead of one
generator
2 propane cylinders, when you could get by with one for a weekend
dishes
clothes
food
drinks
outdoor chairs
folding outdoor table
my private medicine cabinet (wink-wink)
Thanks for the input. The bulk of these items are already calculated in the load in the car. And typically we will not haul water, as city water is usually provided at the show sites, as are dump stations. We won't be doing any cooking to speak of. We want beds and an air conditioned living room.

The biggest question I have is whether this will be quiet enough that I can sleep through the din created by the little yappy rat dogs. I would sort of prefer to just go with a Winnebago, as there are several suitable models that cost less than a TM + TV. But the cost/convenience associated with storing it in a lot as opposed to in the garage cannot be ignored.
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Old 04-14-2009, 03:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Pittsbrat View Post
The book tells me I can haul a 3500 pound trailer with my typical load, and TM's website puts the 2720SL at under 2900 pounds (empty), so it seems doable. I've been towing boats etc for decades, so I have a pretty good idea how far I can (or should) go.
I'm not sure what book that you are referring to but I can assure you that your 3500# tow rating is referring to what your TV can pull with the TV being empty........as in, no passengers, no cargo and very little fuel and not with, "with my typical load".

It must be kept in mind that towing is more about STOPPING and less about pulling. That's why it is important to find out what your GCWR is.

I'm not even saying, "You shouldn't tow a TM with your Honda Pilot". All I'm saying is that it is extremely important to know the facts about what you are towing so that you can drive accordingly. I'd hate for you to figure out that your brakes aren't adequate to handle the load when you are half way down a 3000' incline and you lose your brakes.

Manufacturers always rate their maximum towing capacity at the maximum trailer load allowed with the minimum TV weight (basically empty). If you add weight to the empty vehicle, you must subtract that weight from your trailer.

The tow rating is only one rating of many ratings that must not be exceeded on your vehicle. The most important rating is the GCWR. This tells you the maximum combined weight (fully loaded TV and trailer combined) that your vehicle is rated to stop within legal limits, at highway speeds.

I've been towing for nearly 45 years. I've towed some pretty ridiculous loads with some pretty under-rated vehicles and ignorance was bliss (but no excuse). It was just a couple years ago that an attorney explained the consequences of causing an injury (or fatal) accident due to negligent actions on my part from towing over capacity. He scared the hell out of me and I started doing my homework.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:05 PM   #7
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I'm not sure what book that you are referring to but I can assure you that your 3500# tow rating is referring to what your TV can pull with the TV being empty........as in, no passengers, no cargo and very little fuel and not with, "with my typical load".

It must be kept in mind that towing is more about STOPPING and less about pulling. That's why it is important to find out what your GCWR is.
With all due respect, I am not an idiot. The Pilot book contains a chart showing available tongue weight and trailer weight under various passenger compartment loading conditions. Under my actual load conditions, it's giving me 3500 pounds. I routinely tow my 4500 pound boat/trailer with it, which is at the max allowed per the book, and so I dare say I know something about the subject.

I come from the world of aviation, where weight (and balance) is an absolutely critical consideration. I have extensive trailering experience, yes, occasionally even overloaded. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know exactly what I'm doing when I hook up a trailer.

I just want to know about the TM, not about pulling a trailer.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:48 PM   #8
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Default blanks outdoor sounds

<< I'm curious how well the TM blanks outdoor sounds -- particularly dogs barking. Also, in moderate winds, do the walls shake or rattle? Any drafts >>

I have owned my TM for only 5 months. I am living in it full time. It is the 13th RV I have owned in the last 30 years. I have never owned a popup with canvas sides.

GOOD NEWS - It is not drafty. I have spent the winter in it every night in Kentucky. It is not drafty.

BAD NEWS - It does not blank sounds as well as the other 12 RV's I have owned. It could be a problem sleeping with multiple yapping dogs anywhere close to you. My tow vehicle is a sprinter motorhome. I just spent a little time sitting in it to compare the external noise level to the TM. The interior of the TM is 4 or 5 times louder than the motorhome. There is a busy interstate 1/2 mile away and trains tracks 3/4 of a mile away.

Since we work on laptops several hours per day. The noise has been a concern. Not enought to change to another RV, but annoying.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:50 PM   #9
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Talking

Here is another tip...

Many times you will see references to a statement declaring that the tongue weight ought to be 10 to 15 percent of the total trailer weight.

I do not have any data myself, but I believe that the TM has a tongue weight that is typically more than that. 20 percent as I recall, but I am guessing. The axle is set back a little more than competitors, partly because the trailer is lighter to start with, so they can. The result is less sway. This is partly why the TM rarely needs sway control.

However, with the tongue weight running a little high, do not overlook WD (Weight Distributing) hitches. It sounds like you probably understand that already, except for the TM tongue weight runs a little high.

I suppose you could overload the rear of the TM, but then you risk sway problems.

If the air conditioner isn't loud enough to drown out the yappy dogs, the furnace is. But the a/c and furnace is kinda loud on all RVs.
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Old 04-14-2009, 04:55 PM   #10
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You might want to consider the 2720 instead of the 2720 SL. Your show dogs could use the front bed and not be under foot. Plus you save a little more than 100 pounds.
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