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Old 10-06-2007, 09:32 PM   #1
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Default TM 3023 Big Lemon

Has anyone had endless problems like us?
Bought a 3023 at Willingboro RV in NJ. Took 3 short fall trips right away and it was ok. Winterized it and waited for spring. On our 4th and 5th trips we noticed problems starting to happen, so took it back to the dealer.
Some problems include; stove coming loose from the counter, bath walls being damaged while driving, a gouge being made inside by the back bed every time it is opened, mirror fell off bath wall, door latch allowed exterior door to open while traveling, entry door screw heads breaking off, crown molding keeps coming down, velcro for side flaps not staying on wall, rubber bumpers where lowered body rests need to be replaced for second time already, and more problems. All in the 1st year of ownership.

Our TM was at Willingboro RV for 127 days between July 5,2006 and December 13,2006 The camping season was pretty well shot.(127 of 162 days)

Willingboro was guessing at how to fix the problems and while doing so they caused more damages. It took 6 trips to try to get it fixed, and it is still not done.
Willingboro service told to not bring it back, that we should contact TM. This after they pressured us into spending $1000.00 on a 7 year warranty.
At one repair visit Service Dept. Jim Solomon told us we should be repairing the trailer ourselves.
We talked to the TM Northeast Rep about the problems and he said he would check into it. 3 days later we received a call from the Rep stating he talked to Manager Steve Fisher and was told that we had our TM back and were happy with it. Problem is it was still sitting in their shop for repair. When asked, Steve Fisher denied anyone ever talking to the TM Rep. I still have The Rep's phone call message recorded.
We have used the TM twice this year, 2nd camping season shot, and now instead of the stove coming out of the counter, the cabinet with the stove pulls up from the floor because of their questionable work.
There are more problems not mentioned here, but thank you for letting us vent a little of our frustration.

We spent approximately $28,500.00 on our TM, and we will be paying on the loan for many years yet. We started a lemon law case to have the TM replaced with a current year same model/options TM, or the retail cost of a current year same model and same options about $32,000.00.
TM came back with a joke offer of $8,000.00. They dont want us to go camping anymore, because we could not afford to get a new non-lemom TM or other type trailer since we will still be paying for the first one we bought.

Please let us kow if you have had any problems like this.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:37 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by njtm3023owner View Post
Has anyone had endless problems like us?
Sorry to hear of your horrible experience. I am a newer owner so can't speak with much authority personally. However, I did research quite a bit and actually found the opposite to be true - TM owners seemed to have fewer problems than most (adjusting for the fact that it's a small market for TMs).

Anyhow, I don't blame you for pursuing it. Any given model can be a lemon, but the dealer needs to make you whole. Good luck. To date, our TM 3124KS has had only a few niggling problems, but the dealer experience has been marginal. We'll see.
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Old 10-07-2007, 04:41 PM   #3
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Default TM problems

Yes things get loose, fall off and break. If the metal is bent it's there for life.

We brought our TM used. Although it was hardly used. The first owners most likly were over come with the chore of set up and break down of the unit.

I have seen a steady increase of problems developing with the unit. At such a high purchase cost I'm not Happy. But every thing requires constance maintenance and up keep. Even the most well thought out jet fighters quickly loose their newness. And become a race against small break downs, scratches and dents. So will the Trailmanor. A well plan out mainance schedule to keep the unit clean and repaired is an owners only defence. A fellow has to do it yourself. So often I and my son will be found repairing something, cleaning or trying to replace some broken thing. While the wife and daughter is playing cards or watch TV.

The Trail Manor is a fine camper. We have been across the country, East to west. I am glad to have it. I need to wax it and get ready for the next family adventure.
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Old 10-07-2007, 06:04 PM   #4
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Default 127 days?

Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having with your TM.

I have had a few minor problems. Nothing that I would not expect from a trailer that is subject to road vibrations. Replaced velcro and have cut some custom fit foam rubber sheets to protect mirrors and walls and to keep dust out. So that while towing all would be protected. Check for and tightened loose screws on occasion. Had I not done that it is possible that it would have resulted in problems similar to what you have experienced. It would seem that when towing something like the TM a ounce of prevention is indeed worth a pound of cure. What struck me about your experience is why wait 127 days for satisfaction? No matter what the service, car, house, anything... If one does not get satisfaction in a reasonable amount of time, ( say a couple of weeks? depending on what the repair work is and the availability of parts ) does not one have the responsibility to seek satisfaction through other means? I think I would have taken the trailer to another location for repair at the very least than miss out on camping. I have had my TM since January of this year and given what it does ( solid walls folding down ) I am pleased with what minor repairs have been needed in its 7000 plus miles of use. All repairs and even lift kit installation have been performed by me (a field service engineer, medical equipment ) and my wife ( executive assistant ) in the back yard with help from this forum. Try some repairs yourself if you are able. Do not give up. You are indeed having a bad experience, but the TM is IMO a good product.
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Old 10-07-2007, 08:50 PM   #5
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We bought a new home in 1986. Well, it isn't new anymore.

I need the following:

Redo all floors, 2345 square feet of them. They are all original.
Tent the house for termites.
Redo some of the exterior siding.
Tuneup the concrete tile roof.

When I bought the new home I was young enough to do the work myself, but it didn't need it. Now I just don't have the energy to do it myself.

My TM is now in its third season and has needed almost no work at all. Right now the TM is looking real good to me.
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Old 10-07-2007, 09:59 PM   #6
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Default More Information on TM 3023 Big Lemon

This is a general reply to the suggestions and comments we have received as a whole so far.
Not counting service trips, our TM has been used 3509 miles on 11 camping trips. We loved the weight and the way it towed, then the problems showed up.
The 127 days is the total of 6 repair trips for the same things, of which only 1 has been repaired and several other problems were found when it was returned.
I would call once a week while it was in the shop, and George the service scheduler would tell me parts are ordered, or Trailmanor was sending parts, or designing a solution, even though none of this was happening.
The stove had been re-attached on the last repair trip, but whatever they did has caused the stove to stay in, but the cabinet to pull up from the floor while driving and the counter top to have a bend downward.
We are getting the gouge in the rear section, but for some reason they adjusted the front. This caused a 1 inch gap on top that allowed rain and leaves in when set-up. When closed up and traveling the front section did not line up on the rub strip and wore off some of the finish on the rear section. This was returned to the old way.
A section of bath wall was finally replaced on the 6th trip, and adjustments made to the hardware, but we were told we had to pad the walls while traveling (isn't this a design flaw) and you should see the condition they left the back storage compartment in after replacing the wall.
There are still other problems besides these too.
The last time I picked it up, they got upset when I made them clean up the grease/dirt trails on the carpet (they did not put down anything when they were working on it), not a very customer oriented service facility.
Currently I can not do any big repairs myself do to a work injury 17 months ago. But the cleaning and general/preventative maintenance has been kept up by us and family helpers.
We started with the lemon law case last November, and we were told by the courts that we have a case. Once Trailmanor was served they had 45 business days to respond, their lawyer asked for an extension. We could handle that, we thought.
While waiting we tried to get a trade in value, all but one dealer within 35 miles would not even look at our unit since we were not trading it in at the time, or did not want to look at a TM. I will not go near Willingboro for anything.The one dealer who did look gave us a quote of $8,000.00 because of the repairs needed, and said since TM/Willingboro hadn't been helping us, they wouldn't be helping him either.
We did not think it would really take this long but we finally heard that their lawyer is really busy and needed more time yet, on business day 120.
We offered that we would keep the unit for trade in as long as they settled at $20,500, or we would turn it in for a settlement of $28,500, and lastly we would settle for a 2008, 3023 with the same option as what we had.
On the 131st business day we were told their lawyer had to research more. Sounds like our dealings with their authorized dealer/service center at Willingboro RV.
Now on the 134th business day we were given the offer of $8,000.00. We cannot accept this because it is going to be starting to be unsafe if we keep using it, and if we trade it in plus the $8,000, we are still a long way from the price of a new TM or of some other light weight unit in the same 30' size range.
It has been 11 months since we started on this case. We have basically missed 2 camping seasons, so really we have paid $28,500.00 for a large driveway/lawn ornament that we can not enjoy.
We enjoy camping so we can not back down. If we do we will not be able to have a trailer to go camping for many years, since we will still be paying for the one we won't have.
I guess its time we have to say lets take it to court, whenever we hear from their lawyer again.
Thank You All for your input and support.
Bill, Barb, and Alyicia
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:21 AM   #7
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Sounds to me that you have very unbalanced tires causing some of your problems. They will shake the heck out of your TM causing things to come loose.
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:42 AM   #8
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What model year is your 3023?

2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
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Old 10-08-2007, 07:55 AM   #9
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Default Would Appreciate Your Advice

As we write this, we are waiting for the delivery of our brand new 3326 King.

Naturally as new TM customers, your post caused us some considerable concern.

Our dealer in Sacramento, California has only been a TM dealer for a year or so and our salesperson clearly had little knowledge of the product although they seem to be making a concerted effort to answer our many on-going questions and concerns.

Is there any advice you would give us as our delivery day approaches in about 3-4 weeks.


3326 King (on order)
Suburban 1500
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Old 10-08-2007, 08:44 AM   #10
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The dealer network seems to be a weak link for TM. Even in this Lemon case, a good dealer would have verified the situation, gone to bat for the owner with the factory, and done everything to make it right. Instead, they have only become part of the problem.

These things are NOT like other trailers. A dealer need to know their idiosyncrasies. As to the price they are willing to take it back for (dealer or TM), that will always be a matter of negotiation, but in this case the prior use should be factored in but other than that it should be close to what you paid, IMHO.

I also would investigate whether the frame, tires, or other structural system may be causing excessive vibration in the coach. Or was it in an accident prior to purchase?

What a shame when a great leisure toy becomes the source of a lawsuit, but you have to do what you have to do. Good luck.
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