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  #1  
Old 09-25-2006, 10:24 PM
Goodyear Travels
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Default Squeezing out more horsepower

My wife and I are getting ready to go camping for the first time in our new 2720SL. We picked up our TM in Tucson and while our V6 Tacoma pulled the trailer very well across the desert to our home in Goodyear -- I had some concern about how it will pull at altitude. So I installed a K & N Air Intake System (about $250) and a Redline Power Chip that attaches to the mass air flow sensor. I found the chip on Ebay for $29.95 and saw that virtually all the reviews were very positive. I installed both in about 2 hours. I believe I'm still in compliance with emission standards in all 50 states and I have a sticker afixed under the hood that is supposed to satisfy inspection station personnel. The bottom line is that I've noticed a significant increase in power and acceleration (I would guess about 15HP). I think my Tacoma will do just fine now in Arizona but Colorado may still be a challenge (I may do a "cat-back" muffler switch). If your TV is a bit under-powered maybe one or both of these modifications can help. Oh, my "check engine" lite has not come on has a result of the modifications. And -- I also installed an Equal-i-zer hitch to my swing tongue. This also required a few modifications not covered in the installation instructions. I'll share them as a thread if anyone is interested. TM folks have expanable RV's and expanable minds and hearts. Maybe the leaders of the world could find more concensus if we could put them all in TM's and place them beside a mountain lake ? I know -- "dream on".
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  #2  
Old 09-25-2006, 11:01 PM
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Denny_A Denny_A is offline
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Default My '00 Tundra Limited....

......has a K&N Air Intake System also. The claim is that the peak HP is boosted from 245 to 255. I can't confirm that since it was already installed when I bought the truck....but, that truck can giddy-up and go!

http://www.dragtimes.com/Toyota-Tund...art-12502.html


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New (old) 2002 Silverado 2500 Duramax Diesel (7/13/07) 2008 Copper Canyon 32' Fifth Wheel TT
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2006, 08:36 AM
masterge
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Eric,

Did you buy from Ed Hannon's Freedom RV in Tucson. If so, how was the delivery process? I have a 2007 2720 standard on order (9/9) that I should pick up in three to 5 weeks. I'm over in East Mesa. Did you use any sway/WDH system?
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2006, 09:05 AM
Debian Dog
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You have to be very care with these devices. I have tried various filters and MAF's on my race car and it will alter the way your car runs, shifts, and pulls. Most times for the worse.

For example if you have a K&N filter on a vehicle with a 4L60E transmission it will change the shift point so that your car may be "running better" but your transmission life just got killed. As a matter of fact GM will not warranty your transmission if you have one on certain models. It also leans out you car and the oil from the filter can mess up you MAF sensor.

Unless your drag racing and need every drop of HP and you are not worried about engine life. Run a paper filter.
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2006, 04:35 PM
RockyMtnRay RockyMtnRay is offline
 
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Thumbs down K&Ns are a horrible modification to the Tundra engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny_A View Post
......has a K&N Air Intake System also. The claim is that the peak HP is boosted from 245 to 255. I can't confirm that since it was already installed when I bought the truck....but, that truck can giddy-up and go!
Those K&N intakes have a really, really bad reputation amongst those of us who know what does and does not really improve Tundra engine performance...especially towing performance. K&N engineers have publically admitted there really wasn't anything they could improve on the Tundra intake system so they just tweaked the torque curve toward more top end horsepower at the expense of less mid range torque. That's great for the street racers but bad news for those who haul or tow with these trucks.

First, they do not "flow" any better than the stock intake filter/air box. The very slight horsepower gains come only because there is a tiny lip inside the tube that distorts airflow enough at high intake velocity to fool the Mass Airflow Sensor (aka MAF) into thinking a bit less air is coming in than is. The engine control unit (ECU) therefore runs a slightly leaner mixture, which at full throttle produces a tiny bit more power than the stock, richer mixture will.

Second, at low to mid range RPM (around 2500 to 3500 RPM) where the engine is at peak torque, the K&N reduces torque by about 10% because it very adversely affects the tuning of the intake tract.

Third, if you are not exceedingly careful when oiling the filter after cleaning it, you will get too much oil on the gauze and that extra oil will be sucked down onto the heated sensor wire inside the MAF. Once on the sensor wire, it bakes on and makes the sensor less sensitive...the net result is the ECU thinks less air is coming in than actually is and tries to lean out the mixture. Eventually, you'll get a Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL...aka check engine light) and the underlying trouble code will be excessive leaning (which in turns leads to excessive pre-ignition and a bunch of other nasty outcomes). It's sometimes possible to restore the MAF sensor wires by removing the MAF and dousing the wires with electrical contact cleaner. More often than not, the cure is a brand new MAF at around $250 to $300. This is such an endemic problem with K&Ns that the first step that virtually all dealer service departments do with an ailing Tundra is rip the the K&N off the engine and clean or replace the MAF. If there's still a problem (a rare situation), then they do further investigation.

Fourth, a Tundra K&N is NOT, repeat NOT a cold air intake (to bring cool, dense air into the engine). The stock system is a true CAI because it pulls air out of the inner fender. Despite the appearance of having an air dam, the K&N mostly just sucks in hot, low density engine compartment air, especially at low speed.

Finally, K&Ns make a huge amount of gratuitous noise...noise that becomes extremely tiring when towing because of the much larger throttle openings.

I personally wouldn't install a K&N on my Tundra if you paid me $10000 to do so and I strongly recommend you get that thing off your engine ASAP.
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Ray

I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers


The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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  #6  
Old 09-26-2006, 10:28 PM
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Denny_A Denny_A is offline
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Default Oy Vay....

Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyMtnRay View Post
......snip the engg stuff 'n cut to the chase.....
I personally wouldn't install a K&N on my Tundra if you paid me $10000 to do so and I strongly recommend you get that thing off your engine ASAP.
Thanks RMR! Seems it were a lucky thing for me that I responded to the original post. Otherwise I'd be toolin' along FD&H until a costly failure occurred.

Fortunately the previous owner included the OEM intake system with the truck. It's safely in my wheel barrow as I type. Think I'll see my local dealer for a reverse surgical operation. Hopeing that's possible w/out having to undo ($$$) extensive plumbing changes made to accommodate the K&N.

If it ain't sumpin', then it'll be sumpin' else! Sigh.


Denny
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2006, 01:56 PM
kwatson51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Debian Dog View Post
You have to be very care with these devices....... As a matter of fact GM will not warranty your transmission if you have one on certain models. It also leans out you car and the oil from the filter can mess up you MAF sensor.
I have a 2004 Chevy Avalanche. Put a K&N filter in it. Haven't noticed a difference in anything (maybe 1 mpg better). Should I remove it?
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  #8  
Old 09-27-2006, 08:19 PM
2blueranger 2blueranger is offline
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I have used a K&N filter or something similar on every vehicle I have owned since about 1980. They are less expensive in the long run, as you can clean, reoil, and use them again and again. Ams Oil sells one that is guaranteed for the life of your vehicle. The ones I used all gave me a little increase in gas mileage and a little more performance it seemed. I have never had even a remote problem with anything in the engine management systems. One 1978 chevy I owned has 200,000 miles and still running. My 2004 f-150, 2002 ranger and 1999 taurus all have this type of air filter on them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
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  #9  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:01 PM
RockyMtnRay RockyMtnRay is offline
 
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Default Lucky...or you really know the proper re-oiling technique

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2blueranger View Post
I have used a K&N filter or something similar on every vehicle I have owned since about 1980. They are less expensive in the long run, as you can clean, reoil, and use them again and again. Ams Oil sells one that is guaranteed for the life of your vehicle. The ones I used all gave me a little increase in gas mileage and a little more performance it seemed. I have never had even a remote problem with anything in the engine management systems. One 1978 chevy I owned has 200,000 miles and still running. My 2004 f-150, 2002 ranger and 1999 taurus all have this type of air filter on them. Maybe I've just been lucky.
First, K&Ns do actually help most domestics...mainly because the intake system on domestic brands isn't nearly as well engineered as on some import brands...in particular Toyota and BMW (these were the specific makes that K&N engineers were quoted as saying they couldn't improve on). From what I've seen of domestic intake tracts, K&N really does have a wide-open opportunity to improve intake performance.

Second, there is no problem with oil migration/sensor contamination on any engine that either doesn't have a Mass Airflow Sensor (basically any vehicle made prior to 1996), doesn't use heated sensor wires in the MAF, or has the MAF considerably downstream in the intake tract so migrating oil doesn't reach the sensor wires. A major reason the Toyota Tundra in particular is very sensitive to K&N oil causing sensor problems is the MAF on this engine is only a couple of inches downstream from the filter...any oil the gets sucked off the filter will immediately coat/contaminate the sensor.

Finally, if you actually know the proper way to oil a K&N (i.e. apply only enough oil to get a slight pink color without any visible oil), then the oil doesn't get sucked off. However, most people grossly overoil these filters and that's where the problem starts.
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Ray

I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers


The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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  #10  
Old 09-27-2006, 09:22 PM
RockyMtnRay RockyMtnRay is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny_A View Post
Thanks RMR! Seems it were a lucky thing for me that I responded to the original post. Otherwise I'd be toolin' along FD&H until a costly failure occurred.

Fortunately the previous owner included the OEM intake system with the truck. It's safely in my wheel barrow as I type. Think I'll see my local dealer for a reverse surgical operation. Hopeing that's possible w/out having to undo ($$$) extensive plumbing changes made to accommodate the K&N.

If it ain't sumpin', then it'll be sumpin' else! Sigh.


Denny
Welcome Denny. If all the OEM parts are there, it shouldn't be a big job to replace the K&N. I'd recommend a MAF sensor cleaning while the dealer is replacing the parts. After the ECU adjusts to the change, you'll find you have noticeably more mid range (~3000 RPM) torque though perhaps a tiny bit less at the top end (~5000 RPM) and the truck will be a heckuva lot quieter and more civil.

And there's undoubtedly there's some believes-everything-he-reads sucker out there who will pay you a pretty good price (at least $100) if you auction the K&N on eBay. List on the K&N is somewhere around $300 so you should be able to get at least $100 for yours. Oughta cover the dealer charge or a goodly chunk of it.

And if you want to get some really serious towing torque out of your truck's drivetrain, just do the same mods I did to mine. The JBA headers (7% mid range torque gain), Gibson muffler (3% mid range torque gain), and regeared axles (10% across the board rear wheel torque gain) have collectively given me a solid 20% increase in rear wheel torque over stock. My truck literally pulls like a diesel...I can tow my TM west from Denver (climbing from ~5200 feet to over 11,000 feet) with only 2 stretches where it has to shift down out of 3rd (Drive). And even at 6000 feet, I have to be real careful to avoid rear tire spin...even when the trailer is hooked up and weighing down the truck I can readily spin the rear tires if the road surface has the slightest bit of sand or gravel on it. I've got so much torque available that mountain towing is a positively enjoyable experience.
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Ray

I use my TM as a base camp for hiking, kayaking, mountain biking, and climbing Colorado's 14ers


The Trailer: 2002 TM Model 2720SL ( Mods: Solar Panels (170 Watts), Dual T-105 Batteries, Electric Tongue Jack, Side AC, Programmable Thermostat, Doran TP Monitor System)

The Tow Vehicle: 2003 Toyota Tundra V8 SR5 4X4 w/Tow Package (Towing & Performance Mods: JBA Headers, Gibson Muffler, 4.30 gears, Michelin LTX M/S Tires, Prodigy Brake Controller, Transmission Temperature Gauge)


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