Interesting electrical problem

jimair1548 · 10-06-2004, 09:45 AM

We am looking forward to being a part of this group.This website has been one of the most informative sites that I have come accross.We are the proud owners of a new, 2004 model 3023, and had an experience on a recent trip thru Va, where we plugged into a power source at the campground and immediately tripped the groundfault breaker on the campground post. Eventually the ranger changed the GFI out to a regular receptacle and everything worked normal, (no abnormal current on the frame, etc.) However, we discovered that our electric water heater did not work ( gas side worked fine) We don't know how the element became defective(with a meter, I determined that power was reaching the element, but the element was not working) It would appear, after turning off breakers, that the heater element was going to ground and tripping the outside GFI. Has anyone experienced anything similar?? A side note. another trailmanor(2720) one year old, was in the same campground, and had the same conditions and the same problem.
Other than the gas side of our refrig. not lighting off, we had a great 3 week trip from Ga. into Va. and Pa., riding bicycles on the rail-trails, and are looking forward to many more trips. We transitioned from a very nice Coleman pop-up, but there is no comparision. These units are great!!!

RockyMtnRay · 10-06-2004, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimair1548

We am looking forward to being a part of this group.This website has been one of the most informative sites that I have come accross.We are the proud owners of a new, 2004 model 3023, and had an experience on a recent trip thru Va, where we plugged into a power source at the campground and immediately tripped the groundfault breaker on the campground post. Eventually the ranger changed the GFI out to a regular receptacle and everything worked normal, (no abnormal current on the frame, etc.) However, we discovered that our electric water heater did not work ( gas side worked fine) We don't know how the element became defective(with a meter, I determined that power was reaching the element, but the element was not working) It would appear, after turning off breakers, that the heater element was going to ground and tripping the outside GFI. Has anyone experienced anything similar?? A side note. another trailmanor(2720) one year old, was in the same campground, and had the same conditions and the same problem.
Other than the gas side of our refrig. not lighting off, we had a great 3 week trip from Ga. into Va. and Pa., riding bicycles on the rail-trails, and are looking forward to many more trips. We transitioned from a very nice Coleman pop-up, but there is no comparision. These units are great!!!

Did you insure that the water heater was full of water before you plugged your TM into "shore power"? If the power switch for your water heater's electric heating element was "on"...and shore power was applied to the trailer...and the water heater was NOT yet filled with water, the heating element would have burnt out (and shorted out) within seconds.

The electric elements in these water heaters are treacherous as there's no obvious indication (e.g. highly visible switch) they are switched on. Therefore it's quite easy to burn out the element unless you are extremely careful to always have the heater filled with water before hooking up the power cable.

ripp1202 · 10-06-2004, 11:09 AM

the switch is in the water heater , must access from outside trailer , dumb place for a switch , sound like the no water is it !

**rtcassel** · 10-06-2004, 11:45 AM

http://www.marksrv.com/swwaterheater.htm

I burnt out mine by draining it before turning off the electric power to it. Had difficulty finding the part number on the web -- could not find it at CW. This site put a zero in front of the part number which hampered my search at the time.

**jbeletti** · 10-06-2004, 02:10 PM

jimair1548,

I agree with RockyMtnRay - I "dry fired" my hot water heater electric element. Took me days and a couple phone calls to figure out what my problem was (http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...4865#post14865)

Until you get a chance to replace the element, just turn the switch off (at the water heater on the outside) and you should be back in business with the electrical system and GFI hookups.

Most RV stores carry the element you need. As a suggestion, do yourself a favor and buy an electric element socket. I got one at Ace Hardware for around $10. The size needed is huge (like 1-1/2" or so) and due to the way sheet metal was flanged around my element, I could not use a standard 1/2" drive socket as the walls are very thick on them. I now keep the electric element socket and supplied breaker bar in my TM tool kit - just in case.

While you're at it, consider buy a socket that allows you to pull your heaters Anode rod. I think it's 1-1/16" but measure to be sure. This winter, after 1 very full season of camping in my new 2004 3023, I plan to pull and replace the Anode rod. In fact, just before our first hard frost earlier this week, I pulled mine just to make sure I had drained the water from the tank. Wow is my Anode rod pitted. I'll buy a new one on my next trip to Camping World and pop it in after I winterize.

Jim

**Bill** · 10-06-2004, 02:17 PM

I think everyone is homing in on the right thing - the water heater element. You can check it quickly and easily by switching off the water heater at the outside switch, as Jim Beletti suggested above. If the ground fault goes away, then you have found the problem.

The element is actually an electric heating wire, similar to the one in a toaster. The wire is encased in an electrically-insulating sleeve, and the whole thing is immersed in the water. When you turn the water heater on, the heating wire generates a lot of heat, which passes through the sleeve and is carried away by the water. In this condition, the element stays at a "reasonable" temperature.

If you turn it on when there is no water to carry away the heat, the element gets REALLY HOT, REALLY FAST, and burns through the sleeve. Almost immediately afterward, the element gets so hot that it burns out and breaks, just like a light bulb filament. At this point, since the insulating sleeve is destroyed, the stub ends of the element are in electrical contact with the water when you fill the tank. A small amount of current passes through the water to ground, and voila, this is a ground fault. The ash from the burned sleeve, as well as the drooping end of the burned-out element, may also form a current path for a ground fault, but I think the first mechanism is the most common.

A couple forum members have reported this problem, and it took us all a while to scope it out. Unfortunately, the first guy (Rudy in Texas) was the guinea pig for a couple weeks' worth of troubleshooting. Sorry, Rudy.

A replacement element is relatively inexpensive, and easy to replace, though you need a large socket wrench. Size is bigger than an inch - maybe 1-1/8"?

I'm under the impression that the 2004 models have a switch inside the TM - unlike my 2002, where the switch is outside. I mounted my own switch inside, to prevent just what you are experiencing.

Bill

**Civil_War_Buff** · 10-06-2004, 02:36 PM

Bill,

Where did you mount the switch? Near the tv hookup? I like the idea of moving the on/off switch to the inside....maybe next to the water heater on/off switch......another winter project!!

Larry

jimair1548 · 10-06-2004, 03:32 PM

The 04's do not have the electric hot water switch inside, at least the 3023 doesn't, and I don't believe the units coming off the line now have the switch inside either. A lighted switch(when on) right next to the gas hot water switch would be great....Jim

**YWORRYDOG** · 10-06-2004, 04:08 PM

Just to confirm, our 2027 was made in September and there is no switch inside. Sounds like a good idea.

**Bill** · 10-06-2004, 04:43 PM

Civil_War_Buff wrote:

Quote:

Where did you mount the switch? I like the idea of moving the on/off switch to the inside....maybe next to the water heater on/off switch......another winter project!!

Larry -

There was space on the panel in front of the sink, along with the other switches and controls. Since the water heater wiring is under the sink anyway, this is a good place.

Bill