Suggestions about new TM

[BradS7535]

Alright everyone, I need some advice and some knowledgeable people to just talk things through with. Sorry if I ramble or my thought process is all over the place.

We ordered a 2016 2720QB (first RV for us) in January knowing they were behind due to the factory move. Dealer told me about 6 month lead time and I was fine with that as we aren't in any big rush to get one, and we want one with the options we want (or don't want as you'll see in a sec).

Order is as follows:
2720QB, awning, swing hitch, LP quick connect on outside (thought it would be nice, anyone have any comments about it?), front window (since it is an option now), and the extra hanging cabinets.

We don't need A/C, or TV antennas, and don't mind cranking down jacks manually, we want a pretty "basic" unit.

After reading about aslag54's problems with his TM order and quality issues I began to worry about the direction TM is headed and if buying a new TM ~$30k is a good idea now or if the units coming out of Nebraska the first year or so are going to have issues down the road.

I've looked at used units and while they are rare here on the west coast (California) I'm beginning to wonder if it would be a better bet to find a used one that was built with the original team in TN. We are planning on keeping the TM a very long time (forever?) for all the reasons people buy TMs (don't want to pay for storing a large RV, can't fit a TT at our house, easy towing, etc). So I don't want to get a unit that is TOO old, and of course I want as many of the improvements TM has made over the years.

So here's what I'm hoping everyone here can help me with, giving me input to my questions below.

1) Reading this forum it seems like 2006 was a big design change away from wooden frames. Are there any particular years that have other big improvements, keeping in mind that we plan on keeping this for a very long time. (I don't really like the idea of buying a 9 year old RV if we are going to keep it for another 10-15 years).

2) One of the reasons we wanted a "basic" model (no A/C, TV antennas etc) was we didn't need/want them and it seems like just another thing that could break/leak. What are the risks of buying a used with these options if we aren't planning on using them? How likely are leaks around these things?

3) Any other wise words from all you helpful folks? I've seen a few 2009s and older but they almost always come with A/C, and all the other "extras" we don't want/need.

Thanks in advance!

[davlin]

Howdy Brad,

I'm sure THIS will be an active thread! My advice to you, for the reasons outlined in your OP, is to look for the best fit for you in a used TM, model years 2005 to 2010. I love TM, but buying new right now to get exactly what you want may be really bad decision.

My two cents.

[br2_wdc]

Originally Posted by BradS7535

Order is as follows:
2720QB, awning, swing hitch, LP quick connect on outside (thought it would be nice, anyone have any comments about it?), front window (since it is an option now), and the extra hanging cabinets.

We don't need A/C, or TV antennas, and don't mind cranking down jacks manually, we want a pretty "basic" unit.

After reading about aslag54's problems with his TM order and quality issues I began to worry about the direction TM is headed and if buying a new TM ~$30k is a good idea now or if the units coming out of Nebraska the first year or so are going to have issues down the road.

I've looked at used units and while they are rare here on the west coast (California) I'm beginning to wonder if it would be a better bet to find a used one that was built with the original team in TN. We are planning on keeping the TM a very long time (forever?) for all the reasons people buy TMs (don't want to pay for storing a large RV, can't fit a TT at our house, easy towing, etc). So I don't want to get a unit that is TOO old, and of course I want as many of the improvements TM has made over the years.

So here's what I'm hoping everyone here can help me with, giving me input to my questions below.

1) Reading this forum it seems like 2006 was a big design change away from wooden frames. Are there any particular years that have other big improvements, keeping in mind that we plan on keeping this for a very long time. (I don't really like the idea of buying a 9 year old RV if we are going to keep it for another 10-15 years).

2) One of the reasons we wanted a "basic" model (no A/C, TV antennas etc) was we didn't need/want them and it seems like just another thing that could break/leak. What are the risks of buying a used with these options if we aren't planning on using them? How likely are leaks around these things?

3) Any other wise words from all you helpful folks? I've seen a few 2009s and older but they almost always come with A/C, and all the other "extras" we don't want/need.

Thanks in advance!

You have some excellent options, so I'll provide some of my humble opinions given I recently was in your shoes looking for decent used TM's.

First, as you mentioned, aslag54 experience would give me pause for concern for purchasing any new TM unit right now. IMHO until Bob and the Nebraska TM folks resolve aslag54 units constant delays, and on top of that the quality issues, I would look at your other options. In fact, you can always look at used ones and keep your new order intact on the hope they resolve these issues, and cancel if you find a good used TM.

Next, you mention you don't want or need an A/C or TV/Cable hookup, but almost every used TM I have seen has those items, so I don't believe you'll have much choice there. Also, I don't believe having them adds any additional concerns for leaks or maintenance, though if you choose to remove them I would be concerned about leaks. Also if you keep those options on, it will help with resale later, whenever that might be.

The good news is you will have a BIG range of choices for used, though being on the West Coast the prices appear to be much higher then the rest of the country. You'll need to decide how far you are willing to travel to see/buy one, and being armed and ready to do a complete pre-purchase inspection.

Bill or others are better equipped to address your question on differences in model years, but the big change from wood in the frames to metal came in 2002-2003.

There are a number of newer used TM's on rvtrader.com, but the other question I would have is what is your tow vehicle and do you know the tow rating, and are you only looking at a 2720 or could you open up your search to other models? I know I had a length restriction based on my garage, and you may have a similar requirement based on your 2016 order had a swing out hitch also.

Good luck on your decision and search ....

[BradS7535]

davlin/br2_wdc,

Thanks for your responses.

I wouldn't remove the A/C or TV antennas or anything, it's just something I don't need and wouldn't use. I was just worried about the fact that they had to cut holes in the roof to put these units, where if I bought new, the entire roof would be solid (except for the vent/fan holes) and that we would have less places for a leak to show up.

Our TV is a 2014 Ford Flex SE. We've added the factory hitch, 7-pin plug/wiring and break controller. The only thing we are missing from the factory tow package is an oil cooler. The Flex with the factory package is rated at 4,500# with a tongue weight of 450#. I wanted to stay as light as possible for the trailer since obviously we will be adding all of our gear and supplies to the trailer weight. Other than the TV limitations, we don't have any space constraints in our carport. If I saw a 2922 that met the criteria I wouldn't mind the king bed, but don't think I would want to go any bigger than that. Another thing with the larger sizes is possibly limiting the number of campsites we will fit into (TM + Flex length). Don't know if that is a HUGE concern though.

[Bill]

Brad -

BR2_WDC has made some excellent points. Since he pointed to me, I will add a couple small things.

First, when I bought and owned my 2002 2720SL, it seemed like the overall TM design was in the beginning stages of some relatively big changes, and that these changes were completed by about 2004. Think round wheel wells vs square. Think aluminum shell framing vs wood. And so forth. Perhaps it is just my perception, but I haven't observed another wave of changes like that since then. There have been changes, of course, but most of them have been minor, or incremental, or both. The possible exception could be the move to 15" tires all around, which happened recently. For this reason, I agree with Davlin - anything after about 2005 will have a good design, and the care that a unit has received will be much more important than the initial design.

This brings up a point to remember. We all tend to assume that design changes happened on model year boundaries, since that is how they happen in the auto industry. This is most definitely NOT TRUE with TMs. Because TM has always been a small-production outfit, they phased in changes when it was handy, which means (among other things) when they used up the old parts and started getting shipments of new parts. It also means that they tried some changes, didn't like them, and reverted to the original design. So if you hear that a given change happened on a specific model in a specific year - don't place too much faith in that. For example, as BR2_WDC said, my 2002 had aluminum-framed shells - but not many 2002's did, and many 2003's did not.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[By the way, Brad, your free Trial Membership has run out, and you now have access to very little of the forum. Since you appear to be serious about getting a TM, I would suggest that you become a Site Sponsor.]

[BradS7535]

Originally Posted by Bill

Brad -

BR2_WDC has made some excellent points. Since he pointed to me, I will add a couple small things.

First, when I bought and owned my 2002 2720SL, it seemed like the overall TM design was in the beginning stages of some relatively big changes, and that these changes were completed by about 2004. Think round wheel wells vs square. Think aluminum shell framing vs wood. And so forth. Perhaps it is just my perception, but I haven't observed another wave of changes like that since then. There have been changes, of course, but most of them have been minor, or incremental, or both. The possible exception could be the move to 15" tires all around, which happened recently. For this reason, I agree with Davlin - anything after about 2005 will have a good design, and the care that a unit has received will be much more important than the initial design.

This brings up a point to remember. We all tend to assume that design changes happened on model year boundaries, since that is how they happen in the auto industry. This is most definitely NOT TRUE with TMs. Because TM has always been a small-production outfit, they phased in changes when it was handy, which means (among other things) when they used up the old parts and started getting shipments of new parts. It also means that they tried some changes, didn't like them, and reverted to the original design. So if you hear that a given change happened on a specific model in a specific year - don't place too much faith in that. For example, as BR2_WDC said, my 2002 had aluminum-framed shells - but not many 2002's did, and many 2003's did not.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[By the way, Brad, your free Trail Membership has run out, and you now have access to very little of the forum. Since you appear to be serious about getting a TM, I would suggest that you become a Site Sponsor.]

Thanks Bill,

I didn't even notice I had the full access, most links I clicked said I wasn't able to access that post (ever since I joined).

Yes, I remember reading a thread about how improvements were phased in an out and not on a "model year" basis. I guess my main question (which seems to be answered) is when were most of the "major" improvements totally phased in, and the answer seems to be any model 2005 or newer should have the major improvements. I was trying to find the thread that listed the other changes, but I couldn't seem to find it.

Keep all the 2 cents and opinions coming, they are greatly appreciated and help me with my decision making.

[inghamm]

We ordered a new 2720QB in February 2015. Our experience was similar to aslag54. Delivery promises not kept, calls not returned. At the end, they said everything was ready except for the seat cushions. I said fine, just ship it without the cushions. They never did ship it and wouldn't return my phone calls. We really didn't have a sense that the owners were competent or honest. Fail to sell a $30,000 unit because you didn't get seat cushions together? So in June we gave up and started looking for used.

We had a hard time finding a used 2720. I thought we were going to have to travel to Utah (we live near Seattle) but a 2007 version popped up about an hour away. We have felt very blessed with it. $10,000 as opposed to $30,000, which left lots in the budget for some repairs and upgrades. After reading many reports on the forum, I'm convinced we have a better built unit than we would have gotten.

I think with the inability to get new units, the price of used ones in good condition will stay strong, maybe even go up.

For us, AC was a must. My wife, a true Seattleite who is hot at 76 degree, loves it. But even in Western Washington we get some 90 degree days in the summer, so we've used it several times already. I recently had to re-caulk a roof vent, so I assume the other vents and the AC will also need to be done, but for now they are good. In my opinion AC gives you more options of places you can go and times of year you can go there, so I wouldn't turn down a unit with AC.

[BradS7535]

inghamm,

Surprised they were also having issues a year ago (before the factory move I believe). I'm beginning to lean more towards the used route, there is a 2009 2720QB about 70 miles away, and like you said, will save $10k+ on the used, and will possibly get a better built unit. Trying to find out if it is still available and what kind of condition it is in.

[Redtail Cruiser]

I agree with you, in the aspect that units on the west coast are hard to come by. I'm still getting calls on my 2720, even though I removed it from all sale sights.

Good luck in your search, hope you find what you're lookin for.

[br2_wdc]

Originally Posted by Bill

Brad -

BR2_WDC has made some excellent points. Since he pointed to me, I will add a couple small things.

First, when I bought and owned my 2002 2720SL, it seemed like the overall TM design was in the beginning stages of some relatively big changes, and that these changes were completed by about 2004. Think round wheel wells vs square. Think aluminum shell framing vs wood. And so forth. Perhaps it is just my perception, but I haven't observed another wave of changes like that since then. There have been changes, of course, but most of them have been minor, or incremental, or both. The possible exception could be the move to 15" tires all around, which happened recently. For this reason, I agree with Davlin - anything after about 2005 will have a good design, and the care that a unit has received will be much more important than the initial design.

This brings up a point to remember. We all tend to assume that design changes happened on model year boundaries, since that is how they happen in the auto industry. This is most definitely NOT TRUE with TMs. Because TM has always been a small-production outfit, they phased in changes when it was handy, which means (among other things) when they used up the old parts and started getting shipments of new parts. It also means that they tried some changes, didn't like them, and reverted to the original design. So if you hear that a given change happened on a specific model in a specific year - don't place too much faith in that. For example, as BR2_WDC said, my 2002 had aluminum-framed shells - but not many 2002's did, and many 2003's did not.

Good luck with your search.

Bill

[By the way, Brad, your free Trail Membership has run out, and you now have access to very little of the forum. Since you appear to be serious about getting a TM, I would suggest that you become a Site Sponsor.]

Bill once again comes through .. thank you sir!

Originally Posted by BradS7535

davlin/br2_wdc,

Thanks for your responses.

I wouldn't remove the A/C or TV antennas or anything, it's just something I don't need and wouldn't use. I was just worried about the fact that they had to cut holes in the roof to put these units, where if I bought new, the entire roof would be solid (except for the vent/fan holes) and that we would have less places for a leak to show up.

Our TV is a 2014 Ford Flex SE. We've added the factory hitch, 7-pin plug/wiring and break controller. The only thing we are missing from the factory tow package is an oil cooler. The Flex with the factory package is rated at 4,500# with a tongue weight of 450#. I wanted to stay as light as possible for the trailer since obviously we will be adding all of our gear and supplies to the trailer weight. Other than the TV limitations, we don't have any space constraints in our carport. If I saw a 2922 that met the criteria I wouldn't mind the king bed, but don't think I would want to go any bigger than that. Another thing with the larger sizes is possibly limiting the number of campsites we will fit into (TM + Flex length). Don't know if that is a HUGE concern though.

If you have been on this forum any amount of time, you'll probably realize that any "discussion" on a TV, it's tow rating, and it's ability to tow safely your future TM, can quickly became a "holy war" on opinions and advice.

My only advice would be to make sure your Flex includes EVERYTHING Ford included with the factory tow package, since yours did not have it; hopefully you're only a transmission cooler away! A WDH would be next on the list, but no need to worry about that until you get the TM.

I also agree with your point on limiting the size/weight of your future TM to a 2720. Anything larger such as a 2922 or 3023 would really be pushing the limits of your Flex and IMHO not be an ideal pairing with TV and TM.

Your biggest decision right now is deciding how far you want to travel to find your TM, and your ability to do a pre-purchase inspection to make sure there are no big issues with any of the main systems.