Hold-down latch has come loose

A quick addendum on my post and this topic. Great caution should be used when working on or around these plates. Other people have mentioned it and it should be taken very seriously. Personally when I jack or lift and hold these plates I use a minimum of two points to hold the plate up/in place so if one lift point fails/slips/pops out, the other will still hold the plate UP. That's because if you are working around these plates and they pop down EVEN when Un-Loaded (roof raised) as is best if possible, there is still a lot of pressure, enough to easily lop off finger or break an arm.

Not to be an alarmist but torsion plate/bar work is just as dangerous as any other task involving lifting jacks and jack stands, and these plates are not harmless pieces of hardware.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

I own a 2005 Trailmanor 2619. My left rear (street side) torsion bar mounting plate POPPED down with rust showing on 3 of the 5, 3/8" screws that tore out of the soft, apparently rotting, wood (see first image attached below).

After talking with the regional TM dealer over the phone I tried larger diameter screws that initially held...for about 30 minutes and then POPPED so violently the plate was horribly bent to an almost unusable condition (second image shown below).

Then I called the main TM factory and the rep told me that this happens on some TMs, usually on older ones. He suggested the same idea I was considering of making a backing plate to place on top of the 3" thick foam floor and use longer nuts and bolts and lock washers sandwiching the floor between the backing plate on top and the torsion mounting plate on the bottom. The idea is the backing plate distributes the load across the RV floor evenly over the entire area of the footprint of the backing plate and actually provides a very sturdy mounting and attachment device.

So I made a backing plate from 1/8" x 2" flat steel to be placed on the top of the floor (see 4th image below) and I was just able to access through the outside shower compartment opening for installing it. It was a very tight squeeze and extremely tricky to get the damaged torsion bar mounting plate bent back so that the holes would line up. I used a few jacks, jack stands and some well placed hammer blows to slowly but surely realign the plate for mounting (see third image attached). I opted to try to save the existing mounting plate which ended up working out well in the end.

It looks like "The Browns" situation is very similar but your plate is still in great shape and you seem to have great access to possibly install a backing plate in a similar manner. It's not that difficult (unless you had a Blow Out like I did) and I feel the end result is a much stronger anchor for this torsion mounting plate. Moisture proofing everything the best you can is a good idea. I used oil based Rustoleum and silicon to protect and seal the new parts and installation areas. The wood rot is a big problem and not easily remedied, I will leave it at that, it is very disappointing to have this occur.

Bottom-line, my repair/upgrade of my failed torsion plate mount is holding very well, I feel it will easily last the life of the RV but I do worry about the others failing at some point in the future, like yours has.

IMAGES:
First Image - The first time the Left Rear Torsion Mounting/Tensioning Plate popped down, I then tried larger diamter screws.

Second Image - Then I used larger diameter bolts and it briefly held and then really POPPED, badly bending the plate.

Third Image - Working on badly bent plate to unbend and realign mounting holes.

Forth Image - 1/8" x 2" backing plate to be placed on top of the floor accessed through the outdoor shower opening.

Fifth Image - Plate fixed - A little paint and larger screws in some blown out parts, like the rear bumper storage area, fixed up things like new...well almost.

Good luck with your repair project. I absolutely love my TM, I tow it with a 2005 Jeep Rubicon Unlimited and it's a great match. Most times I genuinely enjoy spending time taking care of my RV, but these darn plates are tough nuts. There is a lot of pressure on them which makes everything much more challenging and a bit dangerous if you are not careful.

Take care...Bob.

In looking at your pictures, I'm wondering if your water intrusion may have come from your outside shower. It may not hurt to pull that thing out and see if is is wet back there. You might even want to hook up to city water so you have enough water pressure for a good test. If that thing is leaking, you sure want to get it stopped.

Thanks for the advice. Actually I had to remove the outside shower in order to gain access the top of the floor where I installed that backing plate. Yes there is a ton of plumbing in that area. The bathtub is right there too with the hot/cold pipes feeding the tub, so the possibility for water being present due to plumbing leaks is huge in that area.

I also did exactly what you suggested, I did NOT use a pressure regulator in connecting city water to my RV and my house has very high water pressure at about 60 psi. I then tested the reinstalled shower and existing plumbing in that area for leaks and all seemed fine. That shower always ran very weak due to a kink the hose so I fixed that and made certain there were no other leaks before reinstalling the shower and buttoning things up.

I really enjoy working on my TM. I am upgrading my brakes to the Dexter self-adjusting type (Nev-R-Adjust) complete assemblies they sell this weekend along with a better controller. I am always looking for little things to keep it new and make the RV a little better if possible BUT this was not a fun project at all. However I definitely feel it will never to be a problem again, at least not on that plate anyway!

When these torsion plates fail, it is amazing how heavy the roof becomes to raise, there is a LOT of pressure on them. So needless to say I couldn't camp while that plate was blown out. With it fixed, I am very pleased to be camping again and took a quick test trip to our Local San Diego County mountain, to Lake Morena as shown in the pic below.

Thanks again for your reply,

Bob

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

I really enjoy working on my TM. I am upgrading my brakes to the Dexter self-adjusting type (Nev-R-Adjust) complete assemblies they sell this weekend along with a better controller. I am always looking for little things to keep it new and make the RV a little better if possible BUT this was not a fun project at all. However I definitely feel it will never to be a problem again, at least not on that plate anyway!

Bob,

Back to your flat steel plate (for your lift arm repair) for a minute............ I was wondering if a 1" thick piece of aluminum flat bar might fit in there (for the next person that has to do this). I was thinking that drilling and tapping the bolt holes might be more effective (and easier to install) then using the steel flat bar with nuts & bolts........Just a thought and you have experience with this repair so I was wondering what you think.............I sure hope that I never have to do it.

If you don't already have a "Lift kit" on your TM, I highly suggest that you install one while you have the brake backing plates off. It makes that job so much easier. The Lift kit will allow you to install 15" tires. The extra height is also nice for going in and out of driveways without scraping and dumping the holding tank is a lot easier too.

Just be prepared to have to cut the welds. The axle is bolted to the frame, then it's welded at the ends. I used a 4" angle grinder and a steel cutting blade. It wasn't too bad but it was time consuming. It would have been a LOT easier with the brake backing plates gone.

Hi Harvey,

I initially discussed this with Ed at TM factory and they recommend this backing plate fix using the RV floor and I see why. The RV floor is very strong compared to that 2" x 4" on its side that the stock bolts simply screw into. Once that wood structure has been compromised it's very difficult to replace it with something stronger without some fairly major internal reconstruction.

Initially I thought of using threaded holes in the backing plate, it's more professional and could make for R & R easier if needed in the future, but the problem is stock mounting holes are right at the edge of the RV, per Ed, they basically are in a 2" x 4" on its side so the new bolts must be installed at an angle inward and up to the clear space on top of the RV floor AND my torsion bar mounting plate was extremely disfigured, making clean insertion and threading of new bolts very difficult (see first image below).

I ended up using overly long bolts and inserting them simultaneously with the torsion mounting plate lowered a bit, tweaking it as needed, just getting the bolts threaded and then slowly tightened them to realign the plate and create a very secure mount. I also drilled the holes staggered a bit to help spread the pressure more evenly on the backing plate as shown below (second image).

The other problem with the angled bolts is the interference of the "L" shape of that torsion bar mounting plate. You can't have the plate fully raised before inserting the bolts, it's an iterative process getting the plate attached and tightened.

With a torsion bar mounting plate in perfect condition you might be able to use threaded holes on a threaded backing plate. But in my situation it was extremely difficult to just get the torsion bar mounting plate realigned so the bolts could be installed and threaded onto the nuts. I had no way to know exactly what angle these bolts would end up being once "convinced" to be inserted into these angle holes through that mangle torsion plate, I doubt a pre-threaded bar would have lined up at all 5 bolt hole locations.

BUT I think using a bar such as you describe in the original factory manufacturing design would be much, much stronger method for attaching these torsion bar mounting/tensioning plates, that's for sure.

Also that shower compartment is very small. At first I could not reach the very back two bolts, no way, my elbow could not get inside that opening. Then as was I was testing the position of the backing plate I made I was fidgeting with it and all of a sudden noticed my whole arm was inside the RV! I found if you wiggle the arm just right and scrape your arm up a bit you can tweak your arm to pop inside. Let me tell you, my arm was very sore after this project was done.

Anyway the photos below show a couple things, one is the view inside BUT please note in the second image you are looking at a broken mirror placed inside looking back inside to view the new hardware, it's not pretty but it's strong.

IMAGES:
First - Shows how badly the plate was disfigured from the force of the torsion plate popping down, here I am working on a plan for reattachement.

Second - Inside view of backing plate and overly long new hardware, the front 3 bolts are visible. NOTE: You are seeing the newly made backing plate, nuts and bolts as seen in a broken mirror piece used to get a view of the new plate and hardware against the inside wall of the RV. After this complete water proofing of new hardware and compartment sealing was done as was high pressure testing of surrounding plumbing. Also you can barley see the floor is now compressed about 1/8" or less down from the RV side wall from the new backing plate being tightned, compressing the 3" floor a bit. I loaded the plate (lowered the roof) overnight and rechecked and it has not moved anyfurther. The plate remains solid and shows no movement at all.

Third - Plate repair finished, just need to resinstall the outside shower.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

Hi Harvey,

I initially discussed this with Ed at TM factory and they recommend this backing plate fix using the RV floor and I see why. The RV floor is very strong compared to that 2" x 4" on its side that the stock bolts simply screw into. Once that wood structure has been compromised it's very difficult to replace it with something stronger without some fairly major internal reconstruction.

Initially I thought of using threaded holes in the backing plate, it's more professional and could make for R & R easier if needed in the future, but the problem is stock mounting holes are right at the edge of the RV, per Ed, they basically are in a 2" x 4" on its side so the new bolts must be installed at an angle inward and up to the clear space on top of the RV floor AND my torsion bar mounting plate was extremely disfigured, making clean insertion and threading of new bolts very difficult (see first image below).

I ended up using overly long bolts and inserting them simultaneously with the torsion mounting plate lowered a bit, tweaking it as needed, just getting the bolts threaded and then slowly tightened them to realign the plate and create a very secure mount. I also drilled the holes staggered a bit to help spread the pressure more evenly on the backing plate as shown below (second image).

The other problem with the angled bolts is the interference of the "L" shape of that torsion bar mounting plate. You can't have the plate fully raised before inserting the bolts, it's an iterative process getting the plate attached and tightened.

With a torsion bar mounting plate in perfect condition you might be able to use threaded holes on a threaded backing plate. But in my situation it was extremely difficult to just get the torsion bar mounting plate realigned so the bolts could be installed and threaded onto the nuts. I had no way to know exactly what angle these bolts would end up being once "convinced" to be inserted into these angle holes through that mangle torsion plate, I doubt a pre-threaded bar would have lined up at all 5 bolt hole locations.

BUT I think using a bar such as you describe in the original factory manufacturing design would be much, much stronger method for attaching these torsion bar mounting/tensioning plates, that's for sure.

Also that shower compartment is very small. At first I could not reach the very back two bolts, no way, my elbow could not get inside that opening. Then as was I was testing the position of the backing plate I made I was fidgeting with it and all of a sudden noticed my whole arm was inside the RV! I found if you wiggle the arm just right and scrape your arm up a bit you can tweak your arm to pop inside. Let me tell you, my arm was very sore after this project was done.

Anyway the photos below show a couple things, one is the view inside BUT please note in the second image you are looking at a broken mirror placed inside looking back inside to view the new hardware, it's not pretty but it's strong.

IMAGES:
First - Shows how badly the plate was disfigured from the force of the torsion plate popping down, here I am working on a plan for reattachement.

Second - Inside view of backing plate and overly long new hardware, the front 3 bolts are visible. NOTE: You are seeing the newly made backing plate, nuts and bolts as seen in a broken mirror piece used to get a view of the new plate and hardware against the inside wall of the RV. After this complete water proofing of new hardware and compartment sealing was done as was high pressure testing of surrounding plumbing. Also you can barley see the floor is now compressed about 1/8" or less down from the RV side wall from the new backing plate being tightned, compressing the 3" floor a bit. I loaded the plate (lowered the roof) overnight and rechecked and it has not moved anyfurther. The plate remains solid and shows no movement at all.

Third - Plate repair finished, just need to resinstall the outside shower.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I didn't realize that the bolts had to go up at an angle.......what a PITA.......

I sure hope that this post gets archived so that it is easy for someone to "Search" for.

Did you think of maybe using butterfly nuts on those hard to reach ones? I'm just thinking that there must be a way to get in there without risking getting blood all over your project (not to mention stitches in your arm)......

I wonder why TM doesn't use 2" x 4" extruded aluminum tubing instead of wood. Especially in those high stress areas........All they would have to do is have them made up with compression tubes inside the tubing and nuts pre-welded on top. Assembly would be easier, servicing possible without hassle and risk of damage minimized. What they would spend in material costs might be offset by assembly labor and warranty costs.

Originally Posted by harveyrv

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! I didn't realize that the bolts had to go up at an angle.......what a PITA.......

I sure hope that this post gets archived so that it is easy for someone to "Search" for.

Did you thank of maybe using butterfly nuts on those hard to reach ones? I'm just thinking that there must be a way to get in there without risking getting blood all over your project (not to mention stitches in your arm)......

I wonder why TM doesn't use 2" x 4" extruded aluminum tubing instead of wood. Especially in those high stress areas........All they would have to do is have them made up with compression tubes inside the tubing and nuts pre-welded on top. Assembly would be easier, servicing possible without hassle and risk of damage minimized. What they would spend in material costs might be offset by assembly labor and warranty costs.

I completely agree, this is sort of an achilles heal on these TM RVs and your idea makes tons of sense. The location my plate failed and the location The Browns failed are both in locations where it's very likley to end up with moisture from time to time due to "wet" items above and directly over the critical mounting wood below. I feel that in many cases it's only a matter of time. As I mentioned I truly love my TM, I am constantly impressed by the innovative engineering and all the little things that allows these RVs to do what they do so well. BUT I do feel the mounting of these torsion bar tensioning plates really should be looked at, and something along the design you describe would be a huge improvement.

I actually bought some butterfly or large 3/8" toggle bolts for the two bolts at the very rear of the plate. The problem is the hole size needed to insert the butterfly nut was almost larger then the width of the mounting flange on the torsion mount plate. So I was determined to get conventional nuts and lockwashers on them if at all possible and keep the hole diameters through the floor as small as possible. Before I realized I could cram my arm in that shower access opening I had made this makeshift nut/lockwasher starter helper shown below...don't laugh too hard. Luckily I never needed it )

[jacjim]

JUST HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME 800 MILES INTO A CROSS COUNTRY TRIP HAD TO TURN AROUND AND CANCEL TRIP .NOW I AT LEAST HAVE AN IDEA ON HOW TO FIX.