US Cross Country Trailmanor Gas $ problem / solutions

[Kmikesell]

This is a significant handicap in my mind. This will be a tough hurdle for the industry to overcome. Today, electric trucks have significant towing capacity - but not for very far.

Bill

Yeah my thoughts exactly. Also I haven't seen the "dog bone" that would allow you to recharge at any 120V outlet. (I'm sure they exist, but I am unaware). And as stated b4 the recharge time could be significant.

As I tell my friends who sing the praises of electric cars (Althouh I think the Tesla is one BA vehicle) You don't have an electriclly powered car.... You have a dead dinosaur powered car.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

...

This is a significant handicap in my mind. This will be a tough hurdle for the industry to overcome. Today, electric trucks have significant towing capacity - but not for very far.

Bill

I believe the future is in the hydrogen fuel cell. Once they can get a reliable source of hydrogen and a hydrogen network, refueling will be quick. One big hangup is getting a reliable "green" source of hydrogen (not from natural gas), and getting a hydrogen network established.

The production of the batteries for electric cars is actually quite damaging to the environment: worse carbon footprint than the internal combustion engine, mining of minerals is causing terrible damage to the environment. I'm not trying to say electric cars are worse than the gasoline powered vehicles, just that they're not as "green" as many seem to believe.

 

[Wavery]

I believe the future is in the hydrogen fuel cell. Once they can get a reliable source of hydrogen and a hydrogen network, refueling will be quick. One big hangup is getting a reliable "green" source of hydrogen (not from natural gas), and getting a hydrogen network established.

The production of the batteries for electric cars is actually quite damaging to the environment: worse carbon footprint than the internal combustion engine, mining of minerals is causing terrible damage to the environment. I'm not trying to say electric cars are worse than the gasoline powered vehicles, just that they're not as "green" as many seem to believe.

Agree 100%

 

[Kmikesell]

I believe the future is in the hydrogen fuel cell. Once they can get a reliable source of hydrogen and a hydrogen network, refueling will be quick. One big hangup is getting a reliable "green" source of hydrogen (not from natural gas), and getting a hydrogen network established.

The production of the batteries for electric cars is actually quite damaging to the environment: worse carbon footprint than the internal combustion engine, mining of minerals is causing terrible damage to the environment. I'm not trying to say electric cars are worse than the gasoline powered vehicles, just that they're not as "green" as many seem to believe.

Yeah.... I also agree. Saw an atricle that mentions using wind or solar to "crack" water to get hydrogen, an interesting concept.

Kory

 

[Tymanthius]

Actually, that is not correct. 100A (or whatever) from a Tesla charger is NOT 2x as much power as the 50A service from an RV park. It's twice as much current, yes, but when talking about battery capacity, or the capability to do work (run your car), you need to compare watts.

Ohms law says power = current x voltage, and so a critical missing piece of info here is voltage. Voltage at all RV parks is 120 volts. Voltage at Tesla chargers is at least 240V, and may even be higher at fast chargers (480V?). So those chargers are able to deliver the same power 2x-4x faster than a charger that would run off 120V at an RV park if the current was the SAME at both places.

Dave

Thanks for that! I completely forgot that the voltages would be different! Shame on me!!!

 

[JohnMD]

I believe the future is in the hydrogen fuel cell. Once they can get a reliable source of hydrogen and a hydrogen network, refueling will be quick. One big hangup is getting a reliable "green" source of hydrogen (not from natural gas), and getting a hydrogen network established.

The production of the batteries for electric cars is actually quite damaging to the environment: worse carbon footprint than the internal combustion engine, mining of minerals is causing terrible damage to the environment. I'm not trying to say electric cars are worse than the gasoline powered vehicles, just that they're not as "green" as many seem to believe.

Add me to those who agree with this. I've read some interesting and promising articles, but am disappointed that I don't hear more about this and most people I speak with have never heard of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

 

[Kmikesell]

Hydrogen fuel cells and thorium reactors...

Kory

 

[Wavery]

Add me to those who agree with this. I've read some interesting and promising articles, but am disappointed that I don't hear more about this and most people I speak with have never heard of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.

Hydrogen cell cars are "da bomb!!"

I just hope that hydrogen becomes reasonable to buy.

.
That's one of the reasons that I haven't put solar on my house. I'd rather plug my house into my car's fuel cell than plug my battery/electric car into my house.

A decent size fuel cell will power an entire home easily.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

...
Hydrogen fuel itself comes with its own set of major challenges. Perhaps the biggest is that unlike propane (for example), hydrogen at room temperature can't be liquified at any reasonable pressure. That means you have to maintain it at very low temperatures, often not far above absolute zero. Think about what this means for your neighborhood service station. No longer can they drop a thin steel or plastic tank into the ground. The tank must be very strong, and highly insulated, and may need a cryogenic refrigerator on site to keep the temp low. And of course you have to do the same thing in your car. Putting a tank like that in your car is a major undertaking - think of the size, weight and cost of such a tank.
...
Bill

There is a lot of recent research going into storage of hydrogen by absorption, that is, storing hydrogen gas in a solid matrix. There is probably a ways to go with this, but it solves the problem of having to store it at ultra low temperatures. Also, if a tank does rupture, not all the hydrogen leaks out at once where it could potentially combust, making it much safer.

Bill's right about the amount of electrical energy it would take to make hydrogen from water. I envisage huge hydrogen production farms in the middle of oceans around the equator continually using solar panels to make the electricity to make hydrogen. Solar panels are not nearly efficient enough yet to make this feasible though, as far as I know. And then you have the durability of these solar panels bobbing around in the middle of the ocean, hurricanes, typhoons, etc etc. So, my vision is probably a pipe dream.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

Hydrogen cell cars are "da bomb!!"

I just hope that hydrogen becomes reasonable to buy.

.
That's one of the reasons that I haven't put solar on my house. I'd rather plug my house into my car's fuel cell than plug my battery/electric car into my house.

A decent size fuel cell will power an entire home easily.

https://www.ballard.com/fuel-cell-solutions/fuel-cell-power-products/backup-power-systems

They're located in Burnaby, practically in my back yard. I'm sure they'll send one UPS to your front door.

 

[CelNArt]

2022 West Coast to East Coast and Back

The electric tow vehicle for long distance hauling is not quite to the gas standard we enjoy YET.

The 100 mile range and 24 hour charging is not an option that blends well with a US Cross Country trip using my personal copied *Rule of 3-Threes protocol. (300 mile or less distance, 3:00PM or sooner arrival and 3 day camp stay.) I anticipate better battery designs will approximate the advantages we currently enjoy with fossil fuels.

An electric tow vehicle is however fine for 90% of local, (Less than 100 miles) camping trips using the same Rule of 3-Threes protocol. BUT... It ain't cheap.
San Diego, California has high Electric rates $.24/KWH and annual electric cost increases added to the charger purchase and maintenance costs. BUT...
An independent solar charging system might be cost effective over time if you are a DIY kind of guy. I am studying and considering this option.

I hope to acquire an older solar charge and storage system from a rich upgrader! Yes, I look on craigslist.org a lot looking for deals.

As I say. save money, Save Money, SAVE MONEY!

Art of CelNArt

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

...BUT... An independent solar charging system might be cost effective over time if you are a DIY kind of guy. I am studying and considering this option.
....

You mean this?

 

[Steph-WO]

Follow this link to get the weekly gas price average of all states.

In Maine there are price under $4 now. The Giv. just announced the no gas tax will be added to fuel cost through summer which should drop the prices another .15 tp .20 cents.

As someone who has a number of friends with EV's. I can say from discussions with them, at this point EV's would not be a good option for pulling a trailer. If you are using Level 1 charging ( 120V), you are only adding 3 to 5 miles per hour of charging. Most charging stations at rest stops are level 3 fast charging (3 to 20 miles per min), systems. The cost is based on how sat you want to charge. If you use the faster charging level, the cost is not much different that gas.

The following is from a great article from Car & Driver.

"How much does it cost to charge on a Level 3 charger?
Level 3 chargers are operated by private charging networks, and the pricing varies greatly from network to network. Some bill the customer by how long the vehicle is connected to the charger, while others bill by how much energy was dispensed. Charging your EV on a level 3 charger will almost always cost much more than charging at home and can cost 2 to 3 times as much at some locations. At that point, the cost to drive on electricity is nearly the same as the cost to drive using gasoline although with lower total emissions."