TV Purchase

[Mr. Adventure]

... NOT ADVISABLE TO TOW TRAILERS BEYOND THIS POINT...

I love great adventures. But if I had the chance to do this, we all (that's me, the road sign, y'all in the forum, and Ms. Adventure) agree that I shouldn't ever expect to be doing it more than once. This particular adventure feels a bit distant for several reasons, but as voyaging voyeurs, we wish you success at finding it a great adventure to report here.

I've seen roads in Virginia, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina that can be pretty steep for towing fun, but these haven't had any federal highway sign numbers. In Illinois, where I went to college, they use 300' verticals as opportunities to build ski areas (to really see a hill, they expect to drive to Wisconsin where sometimes hills can get twice that big).

 

[CrazyCampers]

We bought the Dodge Durango with the V8 Hemi and a towing capacity of 7200lbs. We were sold after the test drive.

Here is a humorous video showing the Durango towing:

So we are one step closer on our new adventure!

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Redhawk]

Congrats on the Durango....I followed one down the highway yesterday, sharp looking SUV. When you start towing I suspect you'll be real happy with your choice. It's that extra headroom of safety that I enjoy.

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

Since you are considering the Durango, I would also suggest looking at the Durango with the 3.0L diesel engine. It is said that it will be available in the 2013 models.

I have a 2007 Grand Cherokee (same chassis as the Durango) with that diesel. I traded my 2004 Grand Cherokee with a 4.7L V-8. Huge difference in towing ability! The diesel also gets better mileage than the 4.7L V-8.

We also have a 5.7L Hemi V-8 Grand Cherokee. The diesel tows much better than the Hemi, also. Plus, the mileage is much better in the diesel than the Hemi. Since you are looking at the Durango, I would strongly encourage you to consider the diesel. Fuel has been cheaper than regular unleaded lately, but you have to watch. There is a difference of as much as $0.40 per gallon for diesel at the different stations around town, even when I am buying it for less than unleaded at some stations.

I didn't think I would be a diesel advocate, but I am a convert. I won't consider anything else for a TV in the future, if I have that option.

Well, as I am reviewing the posts, I see that I have missed an entire page, and that you purchased the Hemi Durango. Much better choice than the V-6. But, I will leave this post here, as I do want to encourage anyone else considering a tow vehicle, to consider a diesel. I am very happy the salesman suggested it!

 

[PopBeavers]

Since you are considering the Durango, I would also suggest looking at the Durango with the 3.0L diesel engine. It is said that it will be available in the 2013 models.

I have a 2007 Grand Cherokee (same chassis as the Durango) with that diesel. I traded my 2004 Grand Cherokee with a 4.7L V-8. Huge difference in towing ability! The diesel also gets better mileage than the 4.7L V-8.

We also have a 5.7L Hemi V-8 Grand Cherokee. The diesel tows much better than the Hemi, also. Plus, the mileage is much better in the diesel than the Hemi. Since you are looking at the Durango, I would strongly encourage you to consider the diesel. Fuel has been cheaper than regular unleaded lately, but you have to watch. There is a difference of as much as $0.40 per gallon for diesel at the different stations around town, even when I am buying it for less than unleaded at some stations.

I didn't think I would be a diesel advocate, but I am a convert. I won't consider anything else for a TV in the future, if I have that option.

Well, as I am reviewing the posts, I see that I have missed an entire page, and that you purchased the Hemi Durango. Much better choice than the V-6. But, I will leave this post here, as I do want to encourage anyone else considering a tow vehicle, to consider a diesel. I am very happy the salesman suggested it!

I considered a diesel, but decided that for my application it is overkill.

I drive 7,500 miles per year. Half of that towing. The other half empty driving around town going to the hardware store.

Diesel has a higher up front cost.
Diesel has a higher annual maintenance cost.
Diesel fuel, though you may get better mileage, costs more so do the math carefully to determine dollars per mile.
Diesel is slightly more difficult to find than gas. This is mainly an issue in small towns away from freeways.

After all of my research I concluded that diesel is an advantage when:

towing heavy
towing at high altitude
towing a lot more miles that I ever will

 

[brulaz]

...
towing at high altitude
...

Actually that's a turbo advantage not restricted to diesels (which are usually turboed). I understand Ford's Ecoboost 3.5L V6 with two turbos has the same high altitude advantage. It also has similar low-end torque as many of the German 3L V6 diesels in their SUVs. But is less fuel efficient.

Unfortunately, the German diesel SUVs are equipped and marketed as Luxury vehicles and priced as such. I'm waiting to see how the Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat V6 diesel will be priced. I suspect that in the Grand Cherokee it will be way over $50K.

I hadn't heard that the diesel will be available in the Durango. But there are rumours that it will appear in the Ram pickup.

 

[PopBeavers]

Actually that's a turbo advantage not restricted to diesels (which are usually turboed). I understand Ford's Ecoboost 3.5L V6 with two turbos has the same high altitude advantage. It also has similar low-end torque as many of the German 3L V6 diesels in their SUVs. But is less fuel efficient.

Unfortunately, the German diesel SUVs are equipped and marketed as Luxury vehicles and priced as such. I'm waiting to see how the Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat V6 diesel will be priced. I suspect that in the Grand Cherokee it will be way over $50K.

I hadn't heard that the diesel will be available in the Durango. But there are rumours that it will appear in the Ram pickup.

50k is a lot of money.

In the fall of 2008 I bought a brand new GMC 2500HD, 4wd, z71, gas, crew cab, long bed, tow package for less than 30k out the door.

I might be willing to pay an extra 1K for diesel, as long as it gets better fuel economy than gas under all driving circumstances (going to the store with no cargo). I also require lower routine maintenance costs (oil change, tune-up, etc.)

In a perfectly matched situation, the engine blows, requiring a rebuild, at the same time that the body rots out. For me, body rot and engine failure both occur at approximately 200k miles and 18 years on the road.

I think that for GM if you get diesel instead of gas then you also need a more expensive transmission. Yet more overkill for a TM.

My brother has a Chevy 2500HD diesel with the larger transmission. He is retired and does a lot of traveling, 7+months per year on the road. His 5th wheel trailer weighs around 12k pounds loaded. I think diesel is very appropriate in his situation, especially towing over the Sierra's and Rocky's.
As I am currently configured, I am probably in the overkill category already. I don't see any value in yet more overkill. Unless I start taking more stuff with me.

 

[brulaz]

...
My brother has a Chevy 2500HD diesel with the larger transmission. He is retired and does a lot of traveling, 7+months per year on the road. His 5th wheel trailer weighs around 12k pounds loaded. I think diesel is very appropriate in his situation, especially towing over the Sierra's and Rocky's.
As I am currently configured, I am probably in the overkill category already. I don't see any value in yet more overkill. Unless I start taking more stuff with me.

Ah well, the traditional diesel in a N.A. pickup is a V8 monster.

But smaller diesels do exist, and this V6 3L that Fiat/Chrysler/Jeep is bringing over from Europe will be a more appropriate size. But the price ... ?

Our 2005 VW Passat (now with our daughter @ 150,000 mi) had a 2L I4 TDI (turbo direct injection) diesel. We hauled our ~2500# pop-up all over N.A. with it. Wonderful car, lots of low-end torque.

Correctly sized diesels really do make fantastic towing motors, if only they can keep the price down. I'm sure we'll be seeing more of them. They exist already everywhere else but N.A.

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

Is the 3.0L diesel overkill? Based on my towing with my 4.7L gas engine, and our 5.7L Hemi gas engine, I don't think so. But, I am at high altitude, and will tow many miles at high altitude, climbing many hills. My 4.7L normally-aspirated would have frustrated me on every trip.

I get 28 mpg with my diesel at 65 mph (not towing). The Hemi gets 18 mpg in same situation.

Diesel costs from the same as Regular Unleaded, to $0.40 per gallon more, in the Denver area. It was $0.20 per gallon more on our trip to Glacier. With the added fuel economy, my diesel (admittedly, purchased used) will cost less to own than a gas Grand Cherokee, over the life of 125,000 miles. I will keep mine much longer, as I am currently driving over 45,000 miles per year, mostly for my job. Fuel economy is a huge factor. Have not spent a penny on repairs in the 3 months, 15,000 miles I have had it. Oil changes are pricey ($150 for "the works"), but only are done every 12,500 miles.

I ran the numbers many times before I purchased, and called 3 dealerships' service departments. They all said the diesel didn't seem to be in the shop any more than regular engines, so they felt they were good engines.

If you don't drive much, diesels aren't worth it. But, in my opinion, if you tow, and drive over 15,000 miles a year (towing, or not), they are worth it, as long as fuel remains within $0.20 per gallon, on average. So far, I have been closer than that on price, so I have made good ground on the price differential!

 

[T and C]

Love to Camp,

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is the 3.0L diesel overkill? Based on my towing with my 4.7L gas engine, and our 5.7L Hemi gas engine, I don't think so. But, I am at high altitude, and will tow many miles at high altitude, climbing many hills. My 4.7L normally-aspirated would have frustrated me on every trip.

Since you speak of a hemi, I am guessing you are talking about a Dodge? I wonder what you are asking of your TV. I have towed my 3023 over a couple of 7000 foot passes with my 4.6 F-150 with no problem. In fact, I went over the Donner pass between Sacramento and Reno at 55 on cruise control. Seems to me that other manufacturer's products in that class would be roughly equal. But, perhaps not.

I have also towed up to Silver Cliff, CO at 8000 feet with no problem. After all, my 3023 weighed in at 4000 lbs. It doesn't seem to me that we should need maximum TV's to pull that sort of weight.

Well, that's my .02 I guess.

Tom

 

[brulaz]

...
I will keep mine much longer, as I am currently driving over 45,000 miles per year, mostly for my job. Fuel economy is a huge factor. Have not spent a penny on repairs in the 3 months, 15,000 miles I have had it. Oil changes are pricey ($150 for "the works"), but only are done every 12,500 miles.
...

Diesels make lots of sense in high mileage vehicles, like the above 45K miles/yr. Typically the engines run forever before needing an overhaul.

We recently purchased a second car and looked seriously at the small VW diesel market. But since the car would only be driven 10-15K km (~8K miles)/yr, it just didn't make sense given the initial price differential, and the fact that some modern gas engines (with turbos) can get close to the same mileage at highway speeds as a diesel. We ended up with a Cruze Eco which is averaging 40 mpgUS and was ~20% cheaper.

 

[Bill]

Is the electric tongue jack the factory lift you mention? Does that also add height?

No. The electric tongue jack simply replaces the manual jack on the front (tongue) of the TM. It lifts the hitch up and down so you can drop it on the hitch ball on the back of the tow vehilce. It doesn't change the height of the TM in any way.

The "lift" (also called lift kit) is a square tube or block of metal, about 2-1/2 to 3 inches thick. It is bolted between the axle and the TM frame, in order to lift the body farther off the ground. This increases ground clearance, provides added clearance to accomodate larger tires - and increases the overall height of the TM.

Bill

 

[CrazyCampers]

Thanks!

Is the electric tongue jack something that is important to have on a 2720? I'm compiling a list of options to have added to the TM.

 

[Bill]

Depends on your definiton of "important". For most of those who do have one, it is a convenience - no need to manually crank the tongue up and down when hitching and unhitching. But the standard jack that comes on the TM is very adequate for this purpose.

If you are physically limited in some way that would prevent you from cranking the manual jack, then it is important. Similarly, if you are physically limited in some way that makes it very hard to raise the shells, the jack can help by raising and lowering the front of the trailer, which can make it easier to open the shells.

I have no figures, but I would imagine that perhaps 5% of us have an electric tongue jack.

Bill

 

[brulaz]

... But the standard jack that comes on the TM is very adequate for this purpose.
...

Love my electric jack, little noisy maybe.

Perhaps the Trailmanor manual jack is better, but I hated running up the jack on our old tent trailer.

 

[PopBeavers]

I have a desk job. I need all of the exercise I can get.

However, 1 minute of cranking is not much exercise.

I get a lot more exercise loading/unloading the motorcycle from the bed of the truck.

 

[brulaz]

I have a desk job. I need all of the exercise I can get.

However, 1 minute of cranking is not much exercise.

I get a lot more exercise loading/unloading the motorcycle from the bed of the truck.

What you need is a trail bike (manually operated).

 

[PopBeavers]

What you need is a trail bike (manually operated).

I have a trail bike, sorta.

My dual sport is a street legal dirt bike. I use it to run errands when camping and explore fire roads and trails. Due to a solo ski injury last year I an no longer do much trail riding.

To quote my doctor:

"If I injure my neck again the might not be any reason for someone to call 911"

Besides my dual sport I also have the Honda dirt bike. Much easier for me to control on the single track trails.

 

[Redhawk]

I like our electric tongue jack, they are pretty easy to add later though, so I wouldn't worry too much about the decision now. 3 bolts and running a wire to the battery.