Tongue weight

[BamaFlum]

If ya'll don't mind, what are some of the tongue weights you are running with which type of rig? WDH and without. Thanks.

 

[Wavery]

If ya'll don't mind, what are some of the tongue weights you are running with which type of rig? WDH and without. Thanks.

A WDH won't change the trailer tongue weight. It just changes the way that the weight is distributed on the TV and trailer axle.

The TW on my '98 2720 was 515#.

I'm pretty sure that ZekenSpider will come on with an up-to-date list of weights of several members trailers.

 

[BamaFlum]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Doesn't the WDH take some weight off the hitch to redistribute it? With a 5000lbs tow capacity, the hitch limit is usually 500lbs and the TM are usually hitch heavy. I wanted to know actual hitch weights from members and how much the WDH releaves it.

 

[Wavery]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Doesn't the WDH take some weight off the hitch to redistribute it? With a 5000lbs tow capacity, the hitch limit is usually 500lbs and the TM are usually hitch heavy. I wanted to know actual hitch weights from members and how much the WDH releaves it.

In very basic terms, the WDH should take 1/3 of the tongue weight and distribute that to the front wheels of the TV, 1/3 will be distributed to the trailer axle (that's the tricky bit) and 1/3 stays on the rear axle of the TV.

The redistribution of weight usually adds about 60% (I think) to the tongue weight capacity of most trailer hitches. This also varies by the way that the WDH is set-up by the consumer.

Check with your trailer hitch manufacturer to see what the capacity of your particular hitch is with and w/o WDH.

The more critical question to ask is how the WDH effects your TV and your trailer. In some cases, a WDH can actually add as many problems as it resolves.

What tow vehicle and camper do you have?

 

[BamaFlum]

We don't have anything yet. We are researching both a new vehicle and a potential TT. My wife would be driving it mostly and doesn't like the bigger SUV's (we have three kids and a pick up is out). We test drove the Expedition and the Sequoia. We are going to look at the new 2011 Explorer when it comes out (it's rated at 5000lbs) because I don't think the Honda Pilot can handle the hitch weight and it doesn't recommend a WDH. The other three row mid size SUV's don't have the room in the 3rd row we are looking for or the storage capacity behind the 3rd row. The TM seems to be a good combination of hard sided TT that is roomy enough for a family of 5 and light enough to be towed by a mid sized SUV comfortably.

 

[Wavery]

We don't have anything yet. We are researching both a new vehicle and a potential TT. My wife would be driving it mostly and doesn't like the bigger SUV's (we have three kids and a pick up is out). We test drove the Expedition and the Sequoia. We are going to look at the new 2011 Explorer when it comes out (it's rated at 5000lbs) because I don't think the Honda Pilot can handle the hitch weight and it doesn't recommend a WDH. The other three row mid size SUV's don't have the room in the 3rd row we are looking for or the storage capacity behind the 3rd row. The TM seems to be a good combination of hard sided TT that is roomy enough for a family of 5 and light enough to be towed by a mid sized SUV comfortably.

If you are considering a mid-sized SUV, a WDH is a must IMO. The shorter WB makes a big difference in how much control you have when removing weight from the front axle w/o a WDH.

Having a large family makes the selection of the correct TV more critical. The extra body weight and cargo weight must be considered. Kids tend to get heavier and bring more stuff as they grow older too. IMHO the Expedition or Suburban class vehicle may be a good choice for a larger family (and all that incorporates).

If you are considering buying a new (or later model) TM, they are now installing 15" tires from the factory (which is a good improvement). If you are considering buying an earler TM with 14" tires, just figure on spending another $500 to upgrade to a lift kit and 15" load range "D" or "E" tires.

If I were considering purchasing a new TM, I would ask them to build it with a 5K# axle (it couldn't be more than $200 difference). That would remove a lot of concern about the effects of the WDH and total trailer weight. I don't like the idea of the GVW being so close to the maximum carrying capacity of the axle.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

We don't have anything yet. We are researching both a new vehicle and a potential TT. My wife would be driving it mostly and doesn't like the bigger SUV's (we have three kids and a pick up is out). We test drove the Expedition and the Sequoia. We are going to look at the new 2011 Explorer when it comes out (it's rated at 5000lbs) because I don't think the Honda Pilot can handle the hitch weight and it doesn't recommend a WDH. The other three row mid size SUV's don't have the room in the 3rd row we are looking for or the storage capacity behind the 3rd row. The TM seems to be a good combination of hard sided TT that is roomy enough for a family of 5 and light enough to be towed by a mid sized SUV comfortably.

You're here for all the right reasons.

My hitch weighed 506# the last time we were on the scales, and the exact scale numbers and ratings are on this thread: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10652

Hitch receivers are often rated higher with a WDH than without, likely in my mind because the spring action of the bars also shifts some of the load to the forward hitch receiver bolts from the back ones, but it's frustratingly hard sometimes to get any details about why things are rated exactly as they are. I wouldn't sweat a 500# hitch receiver with a WDH and tongue weight that's somewhat higher than 500#. But it's important for you to do what you're comfortable with.

I highly recommend the Highlander and the 4Runner as Trailmanor Tow vehicles. They both have 5000# ratings.

We have happy forum members with Honda Pilots, but I think I might want to know more about why they don't recommend the WDH before going that way. And I certainly wouldn't tow a TrailManor without a WDH unless I was towing with something really heavy.

 

[BamaFlum]

Mr. Adventure, we looked at the Highlander and 4Runner and the 3rd row and storage weren't enough. My middle son likes to sit in the back, and Toyota's midsized SUV's just don't have well designed 3rd rows like the Pilot. The pics I've seen of the new Explorer look very promising.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The Explorer should be a good choice. Check with Bill!

 

[Bill]

The Explorer should be a good choice. Check with Bill!

Alas, I'm not sure it is true any longer. The last "real" Explorer was the 2010 model. Starting in 2011, the Explorer is simply a Taurus in wolf's clothing. It has a unibody contruction, rather than body on frame, and partly as a result of that, WRONG STATEMENT - SEE NEXT POST - BILL the tow rating is half what is was. And the optional big engine is now what the standard small engine used to be.

On the other hand, it might be a good time to pick up a "leftover" 2010 - I'm considering it.

Bill

 

[BamaFlum]

The 2011 Explorer's tow rating is 5000lbs. The old Explorer's rating was much higher but it's interior is cramped and the gas mileage wasn't any better than its big brother the Expedition. For most families, the new Explorer will fit and compete well against the Pilot/Highlander/Hyundai midsize SUV's.

 

[Bill]

BamaFlum -

You are right, and I thank you for the correction. When the change was first announced many months ago, I came away with the impression that the tow rating of the "new Explorer" would be 3500 pounds. In fact, a Google search pulls up this number in some of the early discussion. But in the end, that is not correct, and the 5000-pound rating makes me a lot happier.

I have changed my post above to reflect this. Thanks again.

Bill

 

[BamaFlum]

No problem! I love the helpful, friendly atmosphere here. I wish TM had a dealership closer. We won't get to see one until the spring when we visit my wife's brother's family in Fort Worth. There is a dealer in Cleburne, southwest of Fort Worth. I can't justify spending almost 4 hours in the car just to look at TM.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

No problem! I love the helpful, friendly atmosphere here. I wish TM had a dealership closer. We won't get to see one until the spring when we visit my wife's brother's family in Fort Worth. There is a dealer in Cleburne, southwest of Fort Worth. I can't justify spending almost 4 hours in the car just to look at TM.

The best time to buy tow vehicles and TM's is the Winter/early spring. The RV shows have outstanding special prices, and the car dealers are always hungry in the Winter.

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

No problem! I love the helpful, friendly atmosphere here. I wish TM had a dealership closer. We won't get to see one until the spring when we visit my wife's brother's family in Fort Worth. There is a dealer in Cleburne, southwest of Fort Worth. I can't justify spending almost 4 hours in the car just to look at TM.

We got our 2011 2720SL from that dealer, they were about $6000 cheaper then our local dealer in Florida. And since we make the trip to FT Worth about every 3 or 4 months it was no big deal for us. The folks there were great to deal with and went over every item on our new TM, they even gave us what we asked for on 10 year old pop up. The only down side is what they had on the lot was many options we could do without, swing hitch, and power tongue are a few. The places we camp the pins in the swing tongue will be real grief in a few years.

 

[BamaFlum]

We got our 2011 2720SL from that dealer, they were about $6000 cheaper then our local dealer in Florida. And since we make the trip to FT Worth about every 3 or 4 months it was no big deal for us. The folks there were great to deal with and went over every item on our new TM, they even gave us what we asked for on 10 year old pop up. The only down side is what they had on the lot was many options we could do without, swing hitch, and power tongue are a few. The places we camp the pins in the swing tongue will be real grief in a few years.

Thanks! When we finally get there, I will mention you. I love to hear from people who have used someone services to help out.

 

[Unstable_Tripod]

Frankly, I would not consider a Ford Explorer as a TV for a TM. I have a 1998 Explorer and have had some towing problems with my little Fleetwood Pop-Up tent camper, which only weighs 1,550 empty and about a ton loaded. There are two issues. First is the short wheelbase of the Explorer. Even slight steering movements translate back to the trailer quite readily and that can result in sway. The second is power. I have the 4.0L V6 and in the mountains I'm often down to 30 mph. I can't imagine what it would be like with another 1,000 pounds back there.

I know the TMs have their axle set back farther from the center of gravity which reduces sway problems and that a V8 in an Explorer would have more power but a mid-size TV is always going to have a shorter wheelbase than a full-size one. As for power, the extra oomph of the V8 might be mitigated by having five people and all of their stuff in there. I travel alone or with my wife.

My recommendation: get a full-size SUV with a big V8.

 

[Bill]

Be careful of condemning the Explorer out of hand (OK, those of you who have been here a while knew I couldn't resist, right?).

Both Ford and Chevy started out with big but crude SUVs in the 1970's. I owned an early Chevy K-Blazer, and I loved it. Starting in 1978, Ford had a full-sized Bronco to compete with it.

As the gas crisis of the 1980's came on, both the Bronco and the Blazer were downsized into clown cars. Both were essentially mini-pickup trucks with an enclosed back. The Bronco was eventually discontinued. The Blazer was downsized into the S-10 Blazer.

Then an amazing thing happened. Having discovered that they were missing an emerging market, both Ford and Chevy re-upsized their vehicles, now known as SUVs (ta-dah!!). The Blazer was re-introduced as the TrailBlazer. The Bronco was reintroduced as the Explorer.

Like the Bronco, the original Explorer was still pretty small, and stayed that way through the first two generations (from 1994-2001). Then, in 2002, the Explorer went through a major redesign. In this case, "redesign" meant "jack up the nameplate and slide a new vehicle under it". It got much bigger, more powerful, more elegant, and more capable. Just by luck, I bought a 2002 Explorer, and towed my first TM with it for 160,000 miles. It was wonderful! A perfect tow vehicle for our use in the east, and in the Rocky Mountains and Sierras of the west. A few tow vehicles would have been better all around, but not many.

Now we have a 2007 Explorer, and it is the last of a dying breed, driven into the dust by an obsession with mpg (a whole different discussion). Again, it is a wonderful tow vehicle. The small V-8 (4.6L), together with a 114-inch wheelbase and 7000-pound tow rating, make it excellent vehicle for pulling our 2720SL all around the country, for several thousand miles a year.

In short, your 1998 Explorer, with its wheelbase of 102 inches, really shouldn't be used to judge the suitability of an Explorer from the 2002-2010 era. The 2011 Explorer is a different story, discussed in a different thread.

Bill

 

[ED-n-KEL]

First is the short wheelbase of the Explorer. Even slight steering movements translate back to the trailer quite readily and that can result in sway.

I think the issue of short wheelbases are very much overlooked by most, but can cause major issues, especially with today's light duty vehicles.
We regularly towed with a Scout (my brother's) and my E250 full size van.
We used the Scout when we needed 4x4 grip, and my van when we needed cargo capacity, or when making a longer trip. My van with it's 138" wheelbase tracked like a train down the highway, while the short wheelbase of the Scout caused it to constantly "dance".
Keep this in mind, especially when considering one of the larger TMs.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I think the issue of short wheelbases are very much overlooked by most, but can cause major issues, especially with today's light duty vehicles.
We regularly towed with a Scout (my brother's) and my E250 full size van.
We used the Scout when we needed 4x4 grip, and my van when we needed cargo capacity, or when making a longer trip. My van with it's 138" wheelbase tracked like a train down the highway, while the short wheelbase of the Scout caused it to constantly "dance".
Keep this in mind, especially when considering one of the larger TMs.

Short wheelbase vehicles are great off-road, because they are more maneuverable, but lousy at highway speeds because they take a lot of attention to keep them going straight.

A long wheelbase is good for towing. Unfortunately neither you nor anyone else has any data to support "how good" or "how much better" a longer wheelbase is, so that one could make proper inferences about how much wheelbase is enough. Example: If wheelbase is important, wouldn't it be better for you to tow with an old fire truck instead of a van?

Similarly, you also have no data for inference about "today's light duty vehicles." Today's vehicles have pretty good skid control compared to a few decades ago, and I would expect that to make them all better tow vehicles. So far, by a wide no-contest margin, my worst towing experiences have been in a full sized Ford van towing a 5000# travel trailer.

The way wheelbase helps is by providing a lever arm for the steering to work against the overhang, the rear axle-to-hitch ball lever arm which the trailer applies against the vehicle. Maybe the wheelbase to overhang ratio would be a better measure of towing stability than wheelbase alone.