Toilet Additives

[Idaho Adventurer]

Fair question. To the best of my knowledge, you need to search for Aqua Kem Original, the secret being in the the word ORIGINAL. A search for "Aqua Kem" brings up a couple dozen hits, all of which say No Formaldehyde somewhere in the listing. A search for "Aqua Kem Original" brings up a few hits, one of them being Amazon. All of them show a big "Warning - May Cause Burns, Blindness, Death, etc" on the front label and urging you to check the ingredients on the back label. And they don't show the back label. No mention of formaldehyde, yes or no, anywhere in the listing. But in the Users Comments section, there are numerous reviews saying "Wonderful stuff, yes, it has formaldehyde".

So as I said originally, I don't know what is going on. Maybe some warehouses have received permission to clear out their stock. And a lot of it is showing up on eBay, of course. The big picture doesn't make sense to me, but listings for Aqua-Kem Original disappeared for a while, and are now back.

Caveat Emptor.

Bill

I think I found the one you're referring to: "Aqua-Kem sold by RV Wholesale Direct LLC". On the Amazon link I noticed that it says "100% Biodegradable". Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that formaldehyde wouldn't be considered biodegradable. Also, I searched the reviews and questions, and it seems to be that all of the ones that are 2022 or more recent say they either got "Aqua Max" or that what they got doesn't have formaldehyde in it, and all the ones that were earlier than 2022 say it does have formaldehyde. That seems to fit the timeframe of when they outlawed formaldehyde.

 

[Bill]

Idaho, you make some good points, and I am not in disagreement with any of them. Your analysis of review dates is especially interesting - good catch. I'll say it again - I don't know what is going on. What I do know is that Amazon still has a listing for a product called Aqua-Kem Original. The listing text says "Original" but the bottle in the picture does not say Original. There is no picture of the back of the bottle where the contents are listed. The text in the listing says 100% biodegradable. But the text also omits the big claim, Formaldehyde-Free! which is featured in the text in most other non-Amazon ads. So whatever is being sold, does it have formaldehyde? Can't be sure.

I can find a number of internet sites that say formaldehyde is biodegradable. Others say that at some concentration, it kills fish and marine life as it degrades. A number of sites say that formaldehyde has not been banned, though this is often said in the context of the glue in the plywood that is in your home's walls. California says it is a biodegradable carcinogen, and in 2007 asked that it be banned on the carcinogen basis. Is it banned today? I don't know.

What I do know is that like the rest of us, I'd like to find a good toilet deodorizer. I am personally not having any luck with that quest, but I keep trying. I hope someone will find a good product, and let us know what it is.

I'm tired.

Bill

 

[Idaho Adventurer]

It's all very interesting and confusing at the same time. Thanks for you're willingness to go back and forth, Bill My goal in life is to try and determine the truth in all matters from toilet chemicals to the meaning of life. To be wrong in either will leave you in a stinky mess in the end

As of right now, I got a sample of the Inca Gold and plan to use it on a week long dry camping trip near the end of July, and I will provide feedback on how well it seems to work.

Thanks, Kyle

 

[JohnMD]

Inca Gold

All,

I recently contacted Inca Gold(Douglas Products) and they sent me some free samples to try. We received four 2-oz bottles and four powder packets. Our next trip is in July and we plan to see how we like it. Previously, we've been using the Cypress scent AquaMax with our recirculating toilet. We like the cypress scent, but it seems to start smelling bad after two to three days, depending on use and temperature. There are just three of us and we limit use to liquid waste only and try to use campground facilities during the day.

For those interested, attached are the product information and pricing sheets that I received from the company.

I also will try to report back with feedback on what we think.

Aslo, I read somewhere (probably on the Facebook page) that someone uses Pine-Sol. I was wondering if anyone here has tried that. Perhaps that could be a complementary additive to support the Cypress AquaMax.

John

View attachment Inca Pricing Effective 05-01-22.pdf

View attachment F204 liquid gold Appl. Inst..pdf

View attachment Port. Toilet Appl. Instr. Powder.pdf

 

[Shane826]

You also need to remember whatever you use as a toilet additive should also be septic safe. Otherwise you’re effectively nuking the campground’s septic system when you dump your tanks. That’s why formaldehyde based toilet treatment chemicals have been outlawed in several states, which is why Thetford appears to have discontinued Aqua-Kem without saying they’ve discontinued Aqua-Kem, which then probably led to them discontinuing the recirculating toilet.

 

[JohnMD]

Yep..the Inca Gold products are formaldehyde-free.

John

 

[inghamm]

I'm not finding "Aqua-Kem" with formaldehyde in it like you are. Just the new "Aqua-Kem" that's biodegradable and without formaldehyde. Can you share a web link where you're finding it? Maybe I'm just missing it. Thanks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000AXYLP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[JohnMD]

Inca Gold Follow-up

All,

As promised, here is our assessment on the Inca Gold products (using original recirculating toilet). We were at our first campsite for five nights and at our second site for six nights. For the first half, we used the sample powder packs and for our second half we used the liquid samples. I am not sure there is a noticeable difference between the powder and the liquid, though the powder seems nicer to store and handle to me. Our impression is that it works slightly better than the new Aqua-Max at controlling odor. As such, I will probably finish off my supply of Aqua-Max and switch. However, before committing to an order of Inca Gold, I see somebody else (in a reply to an older thread: https://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409&page=2&highlight=toilet) recommended the Walex Porta-Pak, which our local Walmart lists as in stock. We have another trip next week, so I will plan to try out the Walex Porta-Pak. I'll try to report back on our assessment.

Also, something else I've noticed, and perhaps you have as well -- When returning from a trip, I give the toilet a nice cleaning by charging and flushing with clean water and a little bit of chemical. I then run just clean water through as a final rinse. However, when I am at parks with no hook-ups, I dump with my tote and recharge after a few days, but I was not doing any "cleansing charges" to flush out residue in between. As such, I notice that my first charge seems to last longer before we notice and odor. Moving forward, I plan to to a "cleansing charge" as well.

Take care,

John

 

[JohnMD]

Walex Porta-Pak

For those who are interested in our recirculating toilet chemical trials, we recently finished 6 nights on Lake Michigan. We feel the Walex Porta-Pak performed very well for us and think this will be our "go to" chemical moving forward. The temperatures were fairly nice, not getting much above 80, which may have helped out. However, we've camped in lower temperatures with the Aqua-Max not performing as well. I used only one tablet when charging the Thetford recirculating toilet and we never felt the need to change out the water after six nights of camping. The level actually got up to the low side of the full mark on the gauge. As a summary, the following is our rankings of the three chemicals we've used:

1. Walex Porta-Pak (note: NOT Bio-Pak)

2. Inca Gold

3. Thetford Aqua-Max (Cypress)

Because the Walex Porta-Pak performed so well, we have no intention to try out any of the other products.


Happy flushing!

John

 

[Kidkraz]

Although I haven't had issues with my TM toilet I did find a product that works in my home. My sister has mobility issues which requires her to use a commode during the night. Even after one night the oder is pretty stout to say the least. I came across this additive and I have to admit it's working well so for. I haven't done that much research on it, but just another option for folks.

https://odornuke.com/

 

[Idaho Adventurer]

As the one who started this thread, I apologize for not coming back with my verdict at the end of last summer's camping season. I ended up getting some samples of both the Inca Gold liquid and powder. I used the liquid on a 7 night dry camping trip with our church, in which we only used the toilet at night for #1. I did add the Inca Gold at double strength because I new it would be a long and hot week for it. In conclusion, it held up as well as I could expect from any products. For the most part, it was always just the strong fragrance that would hit you every time you lifted the lid. This was a far cry better than my experience with the Aqua Max that we used earlier in the spring. After a couple of nights in much cooler weather and using the toilet in the same manner, the smell was unbearable.

Also, I tried Happy Campers on a much shorter weekend trip at the end of the summer. I like how there's no smell (not even a fragrance), but because the product has no die in it, the look of the liquid after a while is enough to make someone queasy:new_Eyecr.

For those reason, I believe the Inca Gold will be what we stick with for now. I'm not overly fond of the strong fragrance smell, but I installed a toilet vent fan, as some others have done on here, which I'm hoping will help with that.

Incidentally, If anyone is interested in trying out the Inca Gold products, just give the company a call and ask for samples. They seem to be very accommodating to this.

 

[GMC MH]

Hello,

I'm not a Trail Manor owner, but I do have an Electra Magic toilet in my camper that I have been using for many years. Like the rest of you with this recirculating toilet, I have been trying to find a chemical that will perform as well as the original RV Aqua Kem formula.

Till recently, I have had good luck with Thetford's "Aqua Kem Marine" product. It is Bronopol based instead of Formaldehyde, but it seems to work as well as the old RV Aqua Kem. (Even in the Texas heat where I live) I would also say the chemical itself does not have as much of an odor, as RV Aqua-Kem, which is an added plus.

Aqua Kem Marine also seemed to be readily available... At least it was about a year ago, when I bought a gallon of it at that time. Unfortunately, I recently went looking for stock of Aqua Kem Marine, and it seems to have been discontinued along with the RV version.

However, I reached out to Thetford about the lack of availability, and received the below encouraging response:

"Thank you for reaching out to Thetford regarding the Aqua-Kem Marine product you enjoy using. Thetford is reintroducing the product in the liquid form, a 6 pack of 8 oz bottles, as Aqua-Kem. The formulation has not changed only Marine was dropped from the name. It will be ready to ship in the third quarter. NTP also has the Toss-Ins version available now, Aqua-Kem Toss-Ins. I understand it is available through Amazon being fulfilled by NTP."

Now, I went looking for the "Toss Ins" on Amazon, and did not have any luck.... I wrote back to Thetford asking for clarification on where the "Toss Ins" were available, or what "NTP" was, but it's been more than a week now, and I have not received a response.

I do see some "Aqua Kem Toss Ins" in google shopping from various vendors, but I'm sort of holding out to see if the liquid formula again becomes available, as I prefer it to the solid products. I also still have some Aqua Kem Marine left, so hopefully that will get me through.

Hope this helps out....

 

[Bill]

I wouldn't bet the farm on bronopol. Everything I read says that bronopol is similar to formaldehyde, works as well as formaldehyde, and has been banned in RV holding tank deodorants just like formaldehyde (at least in California). That is not promising for its future, so I'm not sure what Thetford is telling you.

There is an interesting article discussing some of this, at

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tech/comparing-rv-holding-tank-chemicals-the-new-formulas/

It paints a pretty rosy picture of the new and different kinds of RV deodorants, though I am not sure I buy it entirely. Nonetheless, there is some good info in it. If you hear any more from Thetford about bronopol, let us know please.

Bill

 

[GMC MH]

I'm with you on the new generation of deodorants... I have not had any luck with them thus far (though I have only tried a few) but my assumption is a lot of that is due to most of the deodorants being more "Holding Tank Treatments" vs "Recirculating Toilet Chemicals"...

My hope is the California regulation is more targeted to "RV" products, (at least thus far) and has not yet been broadened to marine or other products.

And really, holding tank odors are more easily controlled by proper venting and other solutions. It's the recirculating toilets that need the stronger biocides to keep odors under control. Add to that, the issue with these biocides is harm to septic systems (not an issue if you use a dumpsite connected to a municipal sewer) and if you limit their use to JUST recirculating toilets, the impact of their continued use would be minimal.

Also, there are marine, aviation, bus and train products out there that still contain bronopol and other biocides.... If the Aqua Kem does not pan out, Celeste Sani-Pak, Lav Chem Blue and other aircraft, train and bus chems are probably where I would go next. Bronopol is also used in many consumer products... Cosmetics, hand soaps, detergents, etc. as a preservative, so I would think banning it outright would be more difficult.

Again, living in Texas, I can't see anything other than a biocide being effective here during the summer in any recirculating toilet... But maybe the technology will be there for some alternative in the future. In the interim, I will try to stick with biocides as long as they are available.

 

[GMC MH]

Looking further, I found the below document on the Celeste Sani-Pak aviation lav chem product. (Bronopol based) Looking at recommended dosing on page 4 on the below doc, I think we would only require 6-8 grams per toilet charge to meet the "Long-Mid Haul Standard Servicing Interval" dosage.

http://www.celestecorp.com/uploads/3/7/7/2/37724857/sanipak_rev_5_high_res.pdf

I see a 100 count box of 8gram packets on ebay for 60 bucks.. That works out to 60 cents a charge... That's way cheaper than any other toilet treatment I have seen. Going to give it a shot.

Sani-Pak toilet deodorant – developed over 40 years ago for military use – is recognized worldwide as the benchmark in aircraft lav chemical deodorants, and today is also used in rail, mass transit, marine, recreational vehicles and portable toilets.

SP-77000 Series (powder) – Sani-Pak powder is the grandfather of lavatory chemicals. Single use water soluble packets or larger tear open tubes offer an easily controllable and measurable way to deliver the power of Sani-Pak chemical. Unlike other powder products, Sani-Pak uses two types of water soluble film for optimum solubility.

 

[Bill]

Reformulated?

I reached out to Thetford about the lack of availability, and received the below encouraging response:
. . "Thank you for reaching out to Thetford regarding the Aqua-Kem Marine product you enjoy using. Thetford is reintroducing the product in the liquid form, a 6 pack of 8 oz bottles, as Aqua-Kem. The formulation has not changed only Marine was dropped from the name.

I wouldn't bet the farm on bronopol. Everything I read says that bronopol is similar to formaldehyde, works as well as formaldehyde, and has been banned in RV holding tank deodorants just like formaldehyde (at least in California). That is not promising for its future, so I'm not sure what Thetford is telling you.

The Thetford web site says
"Thetford Corporation – the world’s leading manufacturer of mobile sanitation products for the RV, marine, camping markets – is proud to announce its newest North American product line, AquaMAX. AquaMAX is the next evolution of Aqua-Kem. AquaMAX maintains the effectiveness of Aqua-Kem, but is 100% free of formaldehyde and bronopol"

Sorry. Thetford is well-known for making stuff like this as confusing as possible. In this case, it seems they told you that Aqua Kem Marine is being "re-introduced" as Aqua Kem (without the word Marine, but no change in formulation). And now Aqua Kem is being reformulated as Aqua Max, with no bronopol.

Bill

 

[GMC MH]

The Thetford web site says
"Thetford Corporation – the world’s leading manufacturer of mobile sanitation products for the RV, marine, camping markets – is proud to announce its newest North American product line, AquaMAX. AquaMAX is the next evolution of Aqua-Kem. AquaMAX maintains the effectiveness of Aqua-Kem, but is 100% free of formaldehyde and bronopol"

Sorry. Thetford is well-known for making stuff like this as confusing as possible. In this case, it seems they told you that Aqua Kem Marine is being "re-introduced" as Aqua Kem (simply dropping the word Marine, but no change in formulation). And now Aqua Kem is being reformulated as Aqua Max, with no bronopol.

Bill

Bill,

I think that statement about Aqua Max has been out on the Thetford website since 2021... The email message I received from Thetford was just a couple weeks ago. As they stated in the reply, the new Aqua Kem product would be ready to ship 3rd quarter of this year... I would not expect to see anything mentioning this on the website until the product was available for purchase....

Ill respond back here if I hear anything further on my inquiry to Thetford.

 

[GMC MH]

Received the below message from Thetford:

Thetford is excited as well about the reintroduction. Please check back with Thetford late September or early October for the availability of the Aqua-Kem Toss-Ins. While the product is produced it appears as if it has not hit the shelves yet.

 

[GMC MH]

Following up on this in case it helps anyone out... Thetford did in fact re-release Aqua Kem Toss Ins.... These toss ins are Bronopol based and seem to work quite well. Bronopol is an anti-microbial similar to the Formaldehyde used in the old Aqua Kem liquid, except less toxic to people. In fact, liquid Aqua Kem Marine was also Bronopol based when it was available.

I purchased mine at United RV, but I would imagine it is available from other RV shops as well....

 

[Bill]

Interesting. A quick Internet search turns up listings for Thetford Aqua Kem Toss Ins. They are Thetford Product Number 96750, and you can search on that number. They are currently listed at Amazon ($35), where the package picture shows Bronopol as an ingredient. They are also listed at WalMart ($2, making no mention of Bronopol at all. Other retailers say Out Of Stock, a bad sign. Amazon is likely to have more backstock than any single-location retailer, and when Amazon starts raising prices, it may signal the end.

As with the formaldehyde discussion, this may be a situation in which Thetford is discontinuing the product, shipping from existing stock until it runs out. When that happened with formaldehyde, Amazon told me that advertisers listings simply hadn't caught up with reality.

If you are interested in a product containing Bronopol, I suggest you either buy it locally and check the package before paying. Or buy it from an online source that makes returns easy and free. And if you find a source, buy a lot of it. This situation will not end well.

Bill