SandiCravens
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We have a 2020 2518KS Trail Manor and the tires are rubbing on the wheel well. Checked the PSI and it is where it is supposed to be. Any suggestions or solutions? Thank you in advance!!
Tires Rubbing
- Thread starter SandiCravens
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Bill
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Where are they rubbing? At the top of the wheel well, the sides, or the front or back?
Do they rub all the time, or just when going over an obstruction like a gutter or speed bump?
What size are the tires?
Bill
Do they rub all the time, or just when going over an obstruction like a gutter or speed bump?
What size are the tires?
Bill
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SandiCravens
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Tires
Thank you for your response. Tires are rubbing at the top of the wheel well. They are the original tires. Rubbing all the time. Didn’t not rub before and we’ve used it multiple times.
Sandi
Thank you for your response. Tires are rubbing at the top of the wheel well. They are the original tires. Rubbing all the time. Didn’t not rub before and we’ve used it multiple times.
Sandi
Bill
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One other question. Your inquiry seems to say that both tires are rubbing, not just one side. And they contact the wheel well all the time, even when driving on a smooth road, or even when not moving at all. Correct? Did they both begin rubbing at about the same time?
How did you come to realize that they were rubbing, and how do you know that they weren't rubbing earlier? Are they noisy when they rub?
Bill
How did you come to realize that they were rubbing, and how do you know that they weren't rubbing earlier? Are they noisy when they rub?
Bill
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Bill
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One final (I hope) thought before we reach for a conclusion. On the TM web site, the picture of the 2518KS (copied below) seems to suggest that when the trailer is set up, the top of the tire is more or less even with the bottom of the wall above it - in other words, the tire does not protrude up into the wheel well. Does your TM look like this, or is the top of the tire hidden above the bottom of the wall?
Bill
Bill
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Shane826
Senior Member
Sandi- PM sent.
IIRC, the axle was upgraded a few years ago.
Complex reply.
Older '2518' models (if I recall correctly) were built with a "3500 lb" axle, which provided adequate height for only 14" tires before the diameter of the tire would rub against the of the wheel well.
In many cases, owners could add the "lift kit", raising the body and frame about 1-1/2" higher above the axle. That increase in height has generally been adequate to allow for the use of 15" tires on those models.
But newer models (including this 2023, and probably yours as well) are built with a "5200 lb" axle. The axle itself is taller and stronger, creating about 1" more height between the pavement and the "top of the wheel well" -- also allowing for 15" tires. I have an older 2619 built with the larger axle of that year, and use 15" tires with no "lift kit" and without rubbing issues.
- - -
But, if you have changed the "15 inch" tires, the diameter at the edge of the outside of the rubber tread might not be the same as "OEM" tire size. The outer sizes of 15" tires are described by the first additional number in the size specification as follows:
"225/75R15" is typically about 28.3" tall, that might be to close (and allow rubbing). If you switched downwards in size to "205/75R15", the tire would be less tall( 27.1" total) and also a bit less wide (about 8.1", down from about 8.9")
HALF of the that difference (roughly .6 inches) would be a reduction between the wheel hub and the top of the wheel. The other reduction on height would be between the wheel hub and the pavement, lowering the wheel (and your TM body) about .6 inches closer to the ground.
Most of the tires in that size are load range "D", which is roughly 2150 lbs per tire. That figure is right at the limit for a fully loaded 2518 (4580 lbs mus about 320 lbs of tongue weight). But a few tires with that smaller size are also available as load range E tires.
- - -
The other possibility is that your torsion bar axle has "worn down", reducing the angle of drop between the axle body (containing the spring bars) and the mount hub arm. If that has happened due to overloading or component failure, the angle is too flattened at even light loading - the mount hub is to high in comparison to the axle, the and large-diameter tire can rub.
- - -
Repair or replacement of a failing axle is costly. If If your current tires are 225/75 R15 and the axle seem "mostly OK", it would probably be most cost-effective to simply switch to tire size 205/75R15, while maintaining the same load rating (D or E).
I don't know the method attachment for the current axles on more recent TM models. If they are bolted the frame members (rather than welded), a small spacer like the old "lift kit" might solve the problem (although the original lift kit, built for the "3500 lb" axle, is probably not exactly the right size to set between the bigger axle and the TM frame)
Complex reply.
Older '2518' models (if I recall correctly) were built with a "3500 lb" axle, which provided adequate height for only 14" tires before the diameter of the tire would rub against the of the wheel well.
In many cases, owners could add the "lift kit", raising the body and frame about 1-1/2" higher above the axle. That increase in height has generally been adequate to allow for the use of 15" tires on those models.
But newer models (including this 2023, and probably yours as well) are built with a "5200 lb" axle. The axle itself is taller and stronger, creating about 1" more height between the pavement and the "top of the wheel well" -- also allowing for 15" tires. I have an older 2619 built with the larger axle of that year, and use 15" tires with no "lift kit" and without rubbing issues.
- - -
But, if you have changed the "15 inch" tires, the diameter at the edge of the outside of the rubber tread might not be the same as "OEM" tire size. The outer sizes of 15" tires are described by the first additional number in the size specification as follows:
"225/75R15" is typically about 28.3" tall, that might be to close (and allow rubbing). If you switched downwards in size to "205/75R15", the tire would be less tall( 27.1" total) and also a bit less wide (about 8.1", down from about 8.9")
HALF of the that difference (roughly .6 inches) would be a reduction between the wheel hub and the top of the wheel. The other reduction on height would be between the wheel hub and the pavement, lowering the wheel (and your TM body) about .6 inches closer to the ground.
Most of the tires in that size are load range "D", which is roughly 2150 lbs per tire. That figure is right at the limit for a fully loaded 2518 (4580 lbs mus about 320 lbs of tongue weight). But a few tires with that smaller size are also available as load range E tires.
- - -
The other possibility is that your torsion bar axle has "worn down", reducing the angle of drop between the axle body (containing the spring bars) and the mount hub arm. If that has happened due to overloading or component failure, the angle is too flattened at even light loading - the mount hub is to high in comparison to the axle, the and large-diameter tire can rub.
- - -
Repair or replacement of a failing axle is costly. If If your current tires are 225/75 R15 and the axle seem "mostly OK", it would probably be most cost-effective to simply switch to tire size 205/75R15, while maintaining the same load rating (D or E).
I don't know the method attachment for the current axles on more recent TM models. If they are bolted the frame members (rather than welded), a small spacer like the old "lift kit" might solve the problem (although the original lift kit, built for the "3500 lb" axle, is probably not exactly the right size to set between the bigger axle and the TM frame)
Bill
Senior Member
Site Team
RV LIFE Pro
Rick -
You are going down the same line of thought as I was, but with a couple exceptions.
He said he still has the OEM tires on the trailer. They didn't rub before, but they do now. So nothing involving tire change will get us there.
He still has whatever axle he had before, whether 3500-pound or 5200-pound. Again, they didn't rub before, but they do now.
If he had a lift kit and removed it, that could cause the problem. But I think he would have mentioned that.
Tire size? Would a 205 tire have a smaller diameter (radius) than a 215 tire?
My first thought was that the plastic wheel well liner had dropped downward somehow. But I think he is going to tell us that the tires are rubbing on both sides, and I'm not sure I'm ready to believe that both wheel well liners dropped the same amount at the same time.
My next thought was that the rubbing is actually happening on the side (side corner) of the wheel well liner, not the top. But I'm waiting for confirmation of that or denial of that thought. And as before, I'm not sure how that would start happening, unless the wheel well liner somehow got narrower.
The rubbing could happen if the trailer was very heavily loaded. But I'm going to think that he left his collection of manhole covers at home.
Having said all that, I am left with your line of thought. Something has happened to the suspension - either the axle, or the axle mounting. That was the reason for my query about the visual height of the tire as viewed against the lower edge of the box. I still want to see that.
Other ideas welcome, of course.
Bill
You are going down the same line of thought as I was, but with a couple exceptions.
He said he still has the OEM tires on the trailer. They didn't rub before, but they do now. So nothing involving tire change will get us there.
He still has whatever axle he had before, whether 3500-pound or 5200-pound. Again, they didn't rub before, but they do now.
If he had a lift kit and removed it, that could cause the problem. But I think he would have mentioned that.
Tire size? Would a 205 tire have a smaller diameter (radius) than a 215 tire?
My first thought was that the plastic wheel well liner had dropped downward somehow. But I think he is going to tell us that the tires are rubbing on both sides, and I'm not sure I'm ready to believe that both wheel well liners dropped the same amount at the same time.
My next thought was that the rubbing is actually happening on the side (side corner) of the wheel well liner, not the top. But I'm waiting for confirmation of that or denial of that thought. And as before, I'm not sure how that would start happening, unless the wheel well liner somehow got narrower.
The rubbing could happen if the trailer was very heavily loaded. But I'm going to think that he left his collection of manhole covers at home.
Having said all that, I am left with your line of thought. Something has happened to the suspension - either the axle, or the axle mounting. That was the reason for my query about the visual height of the tire as viewed against the lower edge of the box. I still want to see that.
Other ideas welcome, of course.
Bill
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Shane826
Senior Member
Guys- The axle failed. TM has since switched to the 5,000lb axle with 225/75r15 LR-E tires on the 2518, just like the rest of the current lineup.
Shrimpburrito
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- Jul 24, 2006
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- 3,306
Wow, in that current 2518, there doesn't appear to be any wheel well at all! It is noticeably higher.
Dave
Shrimpburrito
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- Jul 24, 2006
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An axle failure on a 2-3 year old trailer? And a lighter model (a 251
at that? I don't think I've heard of anyone's axle actually failing. Presumably its the torsion bars/cords in the axle that failed. Sounds eventful....Dave
Bill
Senior Member
Site Team
RV LIFE Pro
I'm not sure that the change was universal. My 2020 TM came with a 5200 pound axle, but LR-D tires.
I keep remembering that for many years, TMs came with a 3500 pound axle and LR-C tires, and I don't recall a stream of failures in either. TMs are a bit heavier now, but not much. With a 5200 pound axle and LR-E tires, the things should be bullet-proof. BTW, my axle is bolted on, not welded. But I can't think of how that would enter the picture.
On the other hand, I don't have an answer. That's why I keep asking the OP questions. Maybe I'll stumble onto something.
Bill
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Dodge trucker2
Senior Member
yup. ive had experience with torsion axles. the torsion (twist) and support is provided by rubber molded between the axle and an outer sleeve, and when that rubber deteriorates this is the result. Kind of like a control arm bushing on a car or truck. but unfortunately unlike your truck, you cant just unbolt, pop out the bushing from the control arm, and replace it. you have to replace the whole axle assy. (I have lots of experience with car/truck bushings having been a suspension/alignment guy, "specialist" if you will, for the years that I was..... )
My torsion axle experience was on approximately a 6x12 enclosed utility type trailer that belonged to the scout troop that my son was a part of, and of which I was one of the assistant scoutmasters.
we were on a campout and a couple of us noticed the tires were "leaning
in at the tops. being an auto mechanic for a living I often carry a small floor jack in the back of my truck. We jacked it up at the campsite and discovered the slop in those bushings. We told the main Scoutmaster (who usually towed the trailer, and whom stored this trailer at his house, to "get it home, directly home, and do not use it again until we can decide what to do with it".
While They never had this trailer weighed that I knew of, I can guarantee it was overloaded. And never unloaded for more than a weekend at a time when the equipment within was being used. Otherwise it was stored in this trailer year round, whenever the stuff inside wasn't being used.
I was able to measure it up and go to a trailer dealer, and bought a new axle
(they did discount it pretty heavily being owned by a scout group, I believe the discount came straight from Dexter)
Once delivered I went to the scoutmaster's home and installed the new axle myself. Night and day difference. They do go bad.
Hi Sandi, did you ever resolve this? My 2021 2518KB is having this issue. There is only about half an inch clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well.
Yes - a "P205" tire will have less width AND less diameter than a "215" sized tire, if the following numbers (for width ratio and wheel diameter) are the same.
A google search for Carlisle trailer tire sizes returned a page from "Carlstar" instead (maybe as a paid promotion). I don't like Carlisle tires, and I have never heard of "Carlstar". But their trailer tire page (at Radial Trail HD Speciality Trailer Tire) shows the total diameter of the ST205/75R14 tires at only 26.1", while the ST205/R14 offering is 26.7 inches tall.
Half of that difference raises the axle higher from the ground, while half of that distance approaches the wheel well edges -- both on top, and in front. The Torflex axles twist the wheel hub forward and up when strained by a pothole hit, or by heavy loading. The gain in space from the wheel well "inside covers" edges would be about 1/3 inch.
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If this 2518 was built with a 3500 axle, I recommend staying with 205/75R14 tires, but moving up to load range D, and paying a bit extra to order MAXXIS tires. The load range 'C' tires are usually rated around 1760 lbs maximum load. That might seem like an OK match for the "3500 lb" axle limit, but it isn't -- the tires are also loaded by the weight of the RIMS they are mounted on, and by the AXLE ITSELF (including brakes). That's another 100-200 pounds on the pair of tires, in comparision to the "load" on the axles from above.
It is unfortunately easy to overload the small "3500 lb" Torlfex, and it's hard to replace. I otrdered my older '2619' model with the axle, wheels and tires of a 3124 model, and I haven't had issues with the running gear. Here is the Maxxis tire I recommend for small-axles TM models:
Part #: TL00097500
Size: ST205/75R14
105/101N (Load Range D)
BSW
total diameter: 26.1
inflated width: 8.03
max PSI 65 (use the reduced PSI values from the table for loads below 2040 lbs !!!!)
max load per tire: 2,040 lbs (well above the the axle limit)
9/32 tread depth
Most tire stores can special order them pretty easily, although they won't be in stock.
It is unfortunately easy to overload the small "3500 lb" Torlfex, and it's hard to replace. I otrdered my older '2619' model with the axle, wheels and tires of a 3124 model, and I haven't had issues with the running gear. Here is the Maxxis tire I recommend for small-axles TM models:
Part #: TL00097500
Size: ST205/75R14
105/101N (Load Range D)
BSW
total diameter: 26.1
inflated width: 8.03
max PSI 65 (use the reduced PSI values from the table for loads below 2040 lbs !!!!)
max load per tire: 2,040 lbs (well above the the axle limit)
9/32 tread depth
Most tire stores can special order them pretty easily, although they won't be in stock.
I had this problem with my 2417. In fact I could not even remove the tire with it inflated. One of the problems is the square tubing between the axle and the frame was starting to collapse. I replaced it and got a little more height but in the end I just ordered a new axle with 45 degree spindles and the extra high mounting pad. With this setup I could do away with the square tubing and just bolt the axle straight to the frame.
I looked at this again tonight, and I was wrong. The tires are already 205/75R14. It looks like I do indeed have a worn axle. What would be the best replacement axle for this trailer? I don't want this to happen again, but also don't want to add too much overall weight. Right now I have the Lippert 3500 LB axle. Is the 5000lb version much heavier? Are there any other good alternatives?
Thanks
Thanks
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