Things to consider about your tow vehicle when looking into a Trailer Purchase

[Wavery]

That's exactly the problem I was trying to lay out, Wayne. In my opinion, there SHOULD be regional exceptions (or at least regional advisories) on tow vehicle tow ratings. It doesn't take much thought to realize to realize that a single one-size-fits-all number cannot possibly cover all situations. But that is what the manufacturers give you. Again in my opinion, the tow vehicle manufacturers quote the best possible number (that is, the sea-level flatland number) because it maximizes their chance of selling you a vehicle. It is up to the buyer to realize that the flatland number won't apply when you are not in the flatlands.

I can guarantee you that a 3500-pound rated vehicle will not be adequate going up 8% grades at 8,000 feet as you approach a campground in Yosemite National Park in the high Sierras - or a campground at 10,000 feet in Colorado. I have gone both places with my TM and Explorer (rated 6800 pounds), and it was a long slow slog. [Full disclosure - I am unwilling to run the engine near red line for prolonged periods of time.] In spite of the fact that I had more than 2-to-1 margin (according to Ford), there were moments when I wasn't sure I was going to make it. Again in my opinion, there should be a regional advisiory, but since there is not, it is up to the owner to be smart about it.

Bill

Point well taken. The problem is, most consumers will still purchase a tow vehicle that will tow the maximum trailer with the minimum TV in most cases.

I would like to see people do as much research as possible to know EXACTLY what they have and what the limitations are.

It's really encouraging when we have discussions like this because it puts out a lot of information and opinions on towing the TMs. My fear is that someone, sooner or later, will not be able to stop one of these things going back down that 10,000' mountain that you mentioned.

Going up the mountain slowly offers little danger. The dangerous aspect is having a TV that can slow and stop that load going down those grades.

 

[PopBeavers]

Many years ago I saw a class C come within a few hundred yards of Sonora Summit. He was unable to climb any higher. He had to back down a narrow two lane road.

An undersized TV towing a trailer in that situation would have had a much more difficult time backing down that road.

There is a sign much lower down the mountain that states that it is not advisable to tow a trailer over that summit, but I am pretty sure I could.

I think I can, I think I can...

 

[FotoCEO]

Transmission Cooler needed?

When you are pulling a grade and you see the temp gage start to climb, that means that the engine is not releasing heat at a fast enough rate. As the moving parts of your engine heat up, they expand which causes more friction and less available HP. Think of your temp gage as a HP reduction gage. This means, the hotter that your engine gets, the more fuel that you have to give it (increased throttle) which, in turn, increases the heat even more. If the engine gets hot enough, it will actually "Seize", which means it will abruptly stop and may never turn again.

When mountain driving, keep an eye on the temp gage and don't let it get anywhere near the Red zone. If the gage is close, pull over, open the hood and let the engine cool down. If you haven't lost water, it's OK to leave it at idle for a few minutes before turning it off. NEVER open the radiator cap on a hot engine EVER. If you do, make sure that you are close to hospital a burn center because you may need it. This is very serious stuff. There have been cases where people have lost their entire face and/or received 3rd degree burns over their upper body. The Steam released from that radiator can be as high as 600 degrees. When the radiator cap is removed the entire cooling system may "Explode" all over you. That's roughly 3 gallons of boiling water and a huge amount of vaporous gas (steam), all released with a second or 2. That's not something to be messed with. The radiator cap should be cool enough to remove without using a rag for burn protection. If it isn't, leave it alone.

If you are using synthetic oil in your engine and trans, a 30 minute rest may be adequate. If you are using petrol based oil, the cooling process will be far longer, up to 2 hours. Never poor water on a hot engine. Although a spray bottle that delivers a mist can be very helpful. As the mist touches the hot surface, steam will be produces and the evaporation encourages heat release. This must be done with care because the steam can cause severe burns. If you have a 12V fan, that may help a lot. Don't run your battery down. If you can, use the battery from the camper. The thing that retains heat the longest is petrol based oils.

Great information, thank you. My question now is, "how do I figure out if I need to install a transmission cooler?"

Are there general guidelines for figuring that out as well?

And if someone wants to help me, specifically, figure out if I need one, my TV is a 2006 Toyota Sequoia and I'll be towing a 2720. I don't want to mess with minimums, I'd rather figure everything out at the maximum weight I may have so that I don't have to think about it every time. I'm not the type to try to figure out what I can get away with - I want to be safe at all times and have more than I need (hp, torque, stopping power, etc.). For example, I'll be installing a Prodigy before picking up the trailer next week, even though one dealer I talked to said that was way more controller than I would need.

 

[Shrimpburrito]

I also lean towards over-equipping vs. the bare minimum. For reference, I have a 2005 Sequoia with the factory towing package, which included an auxiliary tranny cooler. It would be easy to tell if you have one -- it looks like a small radiator, is roughly 6-8 inches tall and 3-4 inches wide, has 2 rubber hoses connected to it at the bottom, and sits directly in front of the A/C condenser, which is directly in front of the radiator. If you can't tell, I'll take a picture. If you don't have one, get one. They are very cheap insurance ($50-$100) for your several thousand dollar tranny. If you're at all handy, you can install it yourself. It's pretty easy.

Other than adding a Prodigy P3 brake controller (which was very easy as it was factory pre-wired), I did nothing to equip the vehicle to tow our 2720SL.

Dave

 

[Bill]

Great information, thank you. My question now is, "how do I figure out if I need to install a transmission cooler?"

Good question. As a general rule, I think the answer is "Unless you have a moose of a tow vehicle, you need one." And I think Wayne is the only one of us who comes close to moose-dom. Look at it this way. Every car with an automatic transmission has a transmission cooler. The tow vehicle manufacturer puts in a cooler that is adequate to the needs of the vehicle - but no more. Why not? A bigger cooler would cost more, raising the price of the vehicle. And the manufacturer doesn't want that, of course.

So now, you put a trailer on the back of the tow vehicle - a trailer that weighs as much as the vehicle itself. (Both about 4000 pounds.) Now the transmission has to handle twice the load. Do you want to bet your tranny that the stock cooler will handle double the load that the mfr intended? Maybe not.

Another way to answer the question is to do some research on your vehicle, and see what goes into the factory-installed optional towing package. It is not always easy to find out, since some manufacturers are pretty coy. But if you can find out, I think you will find that it consists of a Class III hitch receiver, a 7-pin electrical connector, and an aux transmission cooler. There may be other things, but this is the core of the package. And from that, you can conclude that the manufacturer thinks you need it.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

[Bill]

The problem is, most consumers will still purchase a tow vehicle that will tow the maximum trailer with the minimum TV in most cases. I would like to see people do as much research as possible to know EXACTLY what they have and what the limitations are. It's really encouraging when we have discussions like this because it puts out a lot of information and opinions on towing the TMs.

Wayne, we are in exact agreement on this! One of the purposes of the entire TMO board is to help TM owners understand what is involved in towing a TM, and to truly understand it - not just accept unsubstantiated advice from someone's cousin's brother-in-law. As part of this, we want to help with the research on what all the ratings mean and don't mean, and your inputs to the process are great. And at the end, we all hope that TM owners will be a little more knowledgeable and a little better equipped than other trailer owners.

[soapbox mode OFF]

Bill

 

[Shrimpburrito]

And I think Wayne is the only one of us who comes close to moose-dom. Look at it this way. Every car with an automatic transmission has a transmission cooler.

Yes, but Wayne also carries 10,000 gallons of water/soda/beer, 2 motorbikes, a generator, 26 people, a lawnmower, snowblower, and hay baler. Ok, maybe the baler is a bit of an exaggeration. But point being, even Wayne needs a big tranny cooler.

Dave

 

[Wavery]

When it comes to trans coolers, bigger is generally better. In the case of the Sequoia, I think that I might consider getting one with an electric fan. They don't cost that much more and it looks to me like the front of that Sequoia doesn't give you a lot of air flow.

I love the Sequoia and have considered looking into one. They have a lot of capacity and options.

 

[Shrimpburrito]

In the case of the Sequoia, I think that I might consider getting one with an electric fan.

Our Sequoia came with an electric fan. So does our Jeep Cherokee for that matter.

Dave

 

[Wavery]

Our Sequoia came with an electric fan. So does our Jeep Cherokee for that matter.

Dave

Are you talking about the electric engine fan or does it have 2 separate fans? Just curious......

For an add-on cooler, I like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REMO...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

 

[Shrimpburrito]

Are you talking about the electric engine fan or does it have 2 separate fans? Just curious......

The Sequoia has a total of 2 engine fans. One belt driven behind the radiator, and one electric in front of the A/C condensor, adjacent to the aux tranny cooler.

I believe both the belt and electric fans in the Jeep are adjacent to each other, behind the radiator.

Dave

 

[Wavery]

Let's drop the subject.....I don't want to go out and buy another vehicle right now.......I shoulda bought a Sequoia when I had the chance...

 

[Shrimpburrito]

Haha...when I tell people about the good deal we got on our TM, I often neglect to mention that the purchase inspired the additional purchase of the TV. Ooops.

Dave

 

[robertkennel]

Well tow ratings and trans coolers have been covered but lubrication could use some more coverage. Transfer case,engine oil, differential oil, transmission oil, and even power steering oil should also be considered when using a vehicle for towing. My boss told me about a web site that is a forum on lubrication. This is an EXCELLENT site. The first time I spent two hours on it. www.bobistheoilguy.com
If your into maintenance you'll love this site. Robert

 

[Redhawk]

Let's drop the subject.....I don't want to go out and buy another vehicle right now.......I shoulda bought a Sequoia when I had the chance...

You must have been reading my mind......I was thinking the exact same.

 

[freein05]

A little off subject. What PopBeavers said is worth noting. Today we were coming back from a hike on Ebbetts Pass Hwy 4 in California. Driving our little car and a couple driving a 30 foot or more class A motor home was just starting up the pass. I doubt he made it. The road is only a lane and half wide. No center line. There are grades exceeding I would guess 10% with hair pin curves. The peak of the pass is 8,500 feet. It is a lot worse than Sonora Pass.

It is always a good idea to check with locals before you attempt a high mountain pass that you are not familiar with and that is not a major highway.

 

[B_and_D]

We just got back from a trip going from sea level to over 7000 feet and back, and let me tell you all, I was glad to have been towing with our Chevy 1500 on this trip. I feel so safe towing the TM both up and down the mountains with this truck. On the way home, I slipped it down into 2nd gear and hardly had to use the brakes (it wasn't that steep, just a long, long downward descent).

Living where we do, just about every year we have to climb that high up and descend that far down to go where we want to camp. I can't even imagine towing our 2720 on our trips without our truck. Even just crossing over Highway 17 between here and San Jose, it's a steep climb.

The worst part is going downhill. I never feel like I have "the tail wagging the dog".

California is full of mountains. That's where we like to go, and I don't think we'd feel safe without our tow vehicle being as big and powerful as it is (and it's really not that big, compared to some others).