Roof slope?

[Pele2048]

So I just checked out a 2004 TrailManor 3023. Everything looked solid except for the roof on the back half.

If I'm standing in the kitchen area, under the Air Conditioner, the roof has a sag in the middle. Is this normal?

When viewing the vinyl curtain that completes the upper 3-4 inches of the bathroom wall and considering the bathroom wall to be level, the height difference at the edge and towards the door of the bathroom is about an inch or so... If that makes any sense.

Is this normal?

 

[HoMiPa]

Is this normal?

I don't know if its normal, or not, but mine is like that. I have a 2005 3023. Mine spent a winter, opened, at my cousin's house, while they were waiting to get their occupancy permit on a new construction home. Legally, they couldn't stay in the home without it, but the town was slower than cold molasses issuing the permit. So for appearances, the TM was there as if they were living in it. Unfortunately, this was a winter we had 22 feet of snow, and he didn't necessarily keep the roof clear. My front shell is creased in two places, most likely from the weight of snow on the roof. The back shell sags as you described. I battled water leaks for a while, mostly at the front of the a/c, and rear of roof vent right in front of the a/c - both places on the front shell. Last year I pulled all the caulking and sealed all the roof seams with Eternabond tape. It's not pretty, but it works.

Look for water stains at top of curtain & valance on the rear window - if the back shell leaks, water will usually run down the trim along the center roof line and dribble down on the valance & curtain.

 

[Pele2048]

I'm mainly worried about water infiltration due to the sagging in the middle. I'd expect the middle to be higher than the outer edges to allow water to run off the sides.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

My 2720 fits snuggly from the sides to the middle. I believe the TM website actually says they deliberately slope it down to the sides. If it doesn't slope this way, it doesn't sound good.

 

[br2_wdc]

So I just checked out a 2004 TrailManor 3023. Everything looked solid except for the roof on the back half.

If I'm standing in the kitchen area, under the Air Conditioner, the roof has a sag in the middle. Is this normal?

When viewing the vinyl curtain that completes the upper 3-4 inches of the bathroom wall and considering the bathroom wall to be level, the height difference at the edge and towards the door of the bathroom is about an inch or so... If that makes any sense.

Is this normal?

Can you take some pictures and post them? That would help a great deal in diagnosing any potential issue.

 

[Bill]

Everything looked solid except for the roof on the back half. If I'm standing in the kitchen area, under the Air Conditioner, the roof has a sag in the middle. Is this normal?

Let me be sure I understand. The REAR roof has a sag, but the air conditioner is mounted on the FRONT roof? That's unusual. Usually it is the front roof that bends down under the weight of the air conditioner.

By 2004, I think the shells had aluminum framing, so wood rot shouldn't be an issue. It sounds like someone of considerable heft climbed up on the rear roof, moved to the edge, and ... well, you know.

I'm not quite sure how to fix it, but first let us know that my mental picture is accurate.

Bill

 

[BrucePerens]

Front Shell Sag

My 3023 front shell has a sag. There's an obvious reason: three cut-outs right next to each other, for two roof vents and the air conditioner, plus the weight of the air conditioner. Yes, it is more likely to leak here, and you can pay some attention to the sealing of the openings.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

Check for the slope on the outside. On the inside, my 2720 is almost perfectly flat, but has a crown on the outside.

 

[Pele2048]

Let me be sure I understand. The REAR roof has a sag, but the air conditioner is mounted on the FRONT roof? That's unusual. Usually it is the front roof that bends down under the weight of the air conditioner.

By 2004, I think the shells had aluminum framing, so wood rot shouldn't be an issue. It sounds like someone of considerable heft climbed up on the rear roof, moved to the edge, and ... well, you know.

I'm not quite sure how to fix it, but first let us know that my mental picture is accurate.

Bill

You're right... It's the back roof. The front half roof is pretty flat.

 

[BrucePerens]

You're right... It's the back roof. The front half roof is pretty flat.

Something happened to it. Like snow load. Maybe you should keep looking.

 

[Pele2048]

Perhaps the most unfortunate picture is this one of me hauling it home.

I'm not sure what I've gotten myself into. Buyer's remorse and anxiety is kicking in.

 

[BrucePerens]

Um. That's not good.

 

[br2_wdc]

I'm not sure what I've gotten myself into. Buyer's remorse and anxiety is kicking in.

Yes, not ideal, but just so I am clear in earlier post it sounded like you were still looking at it and had not purchased, but apparently you purchased this unit?

 

[Pele2048]

Yes, not ideal, but just so I am clear in earlier post it sounded like you were still looking at it and had not purchased, but apparently you purchased this unit?

I checked it out shortly after it rained and picked it up IN the rain, which kinda put me at ease because it wasn't actively leaking...

I put a deposit on it after seeing it and went up to pick it up the other day.
It's been pretty nasty here in Washington DC.

There are a few drips in the center channel but that's about it.

I just figured it wasn't that bad and perhaps could be repaired easily.

 

[br2_wdc]

Houston, We Have a Problem ...

I checked it out shortly after it rained and picked it up IN the rain, which kinda put me at ease because it wasn't actively leaking...

I put a deposit on it after seeing it and went up to pick it up the other day.
It's been pretty nasty here in Washington DC.

There are a few drips in the center channel but that's about it.

I just figured it wasn't that bad and perhaps could be repaired easily.

If you did purchase this unit, you are much braver then me; I spent 2 months going through this site, getting as much information as I could before I even started looking!

I wish I had better news, but from the pictures that is not a trivial issue. It appears that something heavy somehow dropped down on the roof. It looks like there is structural damage to the roof itself, and I am not sure it can be repaired at all, let alone easily. Also, any sort of drips from that center channel is not ideal, but with some patience and hard work they can be fixed; many articles here on the site can walk you through it.

Did you purchase directly from the previous owner or an RV dealer? What did they say about the roof issues? Also, did you go through the pre-purchase checklist available on this site where you check all the major systems: gas furnace, fridge, stove, bathroom, and hot water heater?

One last thing I noticed is you are still a "trial" member, so if the purchase of this TM is a "done deal", then you MUST send $12 to become a full member on this site; you do not have access to everything you need to tackle any of these issues until you become a full member.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

I would be curious if the inner roof skin could be separated to repair the structure and restore the crown. I bet the inner skin could be reglued to the foam and secured with rivets.

Alternatively, with the skin removed, the foam could be removed also, and sound deadening strips added to the inside of the outer skin. lf the inner skin were secured using rivets, a series of holes could be drilled, through which a low expanding spray foam could be injected.

You might then have quietest and warmest roof of us all. Or this might be the craziest idea ever dreampt up.

 

[Pele2048]

If you did purchase this unit, you are much braver then me; I spent 2 months going through this site, getting as much information as I could before I even started looking!

Yeah, I only found this site after I was looking at the unit.

I HAD been looking at canvas based popups (Coleman, Fleetwood, etc.) for a few years and sitting on the fence about even buying one due to mold/mildew concerns and some models having the tendency for the roof to delaminate.

I also wanted A/C AND an indoor shower, which is difficult to find in a popup.
But I wanted a sub 3500 lb trailer and I didn't want a full-size travel trailer parked in the driveway.

I wish I had better news, but from the pictures that is not a trivial issue. It appears that something heavy somehow dropped down on the roof. It looks like there is structural damage to the roof itself, and I am not sure it can be repaired at all, let alone easily. Also, any sort of drips from that center channel is not ideal, but with some patience and hard work they can be fixed; many articles here on the site can walk you through it.

I don't see any creases in the interior aluminum skin or cracks in the outer vinyl skin. I feel I should be able to repair it.

I'm an experienced DIYer. I've stripped my entire kitchen down to studs, rewired it (Replaced aluminum wiring with copper), replumbed it (copper), drywalled, tiled, cabinets and granite countertops... I've done electrical panel replacements and framework within my houses as well.

I'm also an experienced mechanic. I've rebuilt engines and transmissions, done suspension and brake work. My day job is an Electrical Engineer.

Did you purchase directly from the previous owner or an RV dealer? What did they say about the roof issues? Also, did you go through the pre-purchase checklist available on this site where you check all the major systems: gas furnace, fridge, stove, bathroom, and hot water heater?

Yes, all the systems worked. Original Norcold fridge runs in all three modes, Water heater has been replaced and fires up. Stove and oven light up and burn clean. Bathroom works as far as water flowing... I didn't drop a deuce in the toilet or anything, but I filled it with water and let it flow with the flush button.

One last thing I noticed is you are still a "trial" member, so if the purchase of this TM is a "done deal", then you MUST send $12 to become a full member on this site; you do not have access to everything you need to tackle any of these issues until you become a full member.

Done! $12 a year is reasonable.

 

[BrucePerens]

This might be a "live with it" thing rather than one you repair. I can think of a few ways to attempt to bend it back, but they probably aren't worth the risk of entirely trashing the shell.

I keep my TM under a 20x30 tarp in rainy season, about $60 from Harbor Freight. There's an Adco cover over that. This will be less convenient if you live where it rains year round. The tarp has lasted two years so far, I patched a few holes with gorilla tape on both sides. Same for the cover.

Some people warn that you can get mildew by using a tarp over your RV, I've not experienced any. The tarp is open at the bottom and air moves through it.

 

[br2_wdc]

Yes, all the systems worked. Original Norcold fridge runs in all three modes, Water heater has been replaced and fires up. Stove and oven light up and burn clean. Bathroom works as far as water flowing... I didn't drop a deuce in the toilet or anything, but I filled it with water and let it flow with the flush button.

Excellent news ... all the other systems are in working order, and you are clearly able to handle essentially any other issue.

Once you have full access, you'll see the vast knowledge base available, and with some searches I'm pretty sure you'll figure out if there is a fix for the roof structure or if you can fabricate something on your own.

To get you started on how the roof structure works before you get full access, I did a quick search on "roof fix", and thought the follow post may help; post is under the subject of "Trailmanor Exterior Shell Needs Repair" for hail damage:

My trail manor in Castle Rock, CO experienced some pretty bad hail damage. I know The Car Show in Colorado Springs recently closed its doors. Does anyone know of a business that can do this repair in the Denver area?

Thank you

Richard

Your best alternative might be not to fix it, except for the few dents that make the roof leak.

Does anyone know of a business that has ever repaired hail damage on a Trailmanor? I got mine as salvage because the insurer wrote off a hail-damaged TM as totalled, and I believe Tom Clarkson got his the same way. Other folks here have bought their TM back from the insurer after it was totaled for hail damage.

The skin of a Trailmanor doesn't come off the way the skin of a conventional RV can, and conventional fiberglass repair doesn't work on it. The wall and roof panels are a laminated foam sandwich.

The alumium skin is coated with a polyester glaze called Krystal Kote which in general won't be replaced after any repainting operation. In theory a professional could spray it, but it's two-part and sets in 15 minutes in your spray gun if you're not careful.

I have a theory that a lightweight version of Bondo containing glass spheres filled with air could be used to fill dents, but I've not tested it yet.

BrucePerens

You can't replace the skin of a TM. As BrucePerens mentioned above, the walls and roof are formed by gluing the inside and outside metal skins to a foam-slab core. If you try to remove the skin, it will pull the core apart and destroy it.

The TM factory might be willing to replace the entire shell, but that is wildly expensive. That is why hail damage usually results in an insurance declaration of total loss.

Although I've not heard of anyone doing it, it seems to me that it might be possible to use something like an automotive dent-puller, to grab the skin at the site of the damage, and pull it back out until it is nearly flat with the surrounding skin. You still have to seal the hole where the dent puller was used, so I'm not sure you are ahead of the game.

Bottom line is probably what has been posted above. Seal the dimples so they don't leak. Then call that good enough, and enjoy your TM.
Bill

Welcome aboard and with this site and your skills, I am certain you'll find some options for the roof.

 

[Pele2048]

This might be a "live with it" thing rather than one you repair. I can think of a few ways to attempt to bend it back, but they probably aren't worth the risk of entirely trashing the shell.

I keep my TM under a 20x30 tarp in rainy season, about $60 from Harbor Freight. There's an Adco cover over that. This will be less convenient if you live where it rains year round. The tarp has lasted two years so far, I patched a few holes with gorilla tape on both sides. Same for the cover.

Some people warn that you can get mildew by using a tarp over your RV, I've not experienced any. The tarp is open at the bottom and air moves through it.

I found that the seller advertised the TrailManor that I bought on this site: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18014
I had no idea that it was for sale since February. I shoulda talked him down more. I found it on CraigsList.

It was only $4200. And it included some fairly expensive things like an Equal-i-zer weight distributing/sway control hitch. It also included a tarp and a 25 ft 10AWG extension cord with 30 amp connectors on the ends.

I figure the hitch retails for $400-500 and the cord and tarp should be good for another $100.

For the price of mid $3000's, I will be able to live with it, so long as it doesn't get water inside...

EDIT: Just noticed your signature at the bottom of your post...

73 de W3RPM