Replacing vents and center seam cover

[Joe1963]

We are new to owning and maintaining a camper. Our new to us 2001 2619 TrailManor leaked like a sieve from the vents in the last rainstorm. When I pulled the inside vent covers off, all of the wood around both vents was rotted, and mostly just a sloppy wet mess. So, it has been leaking for a very long time. The LAP sealant on the roof was also a big gloppy mess, so we scraped it all off with plastic scrapers after letting it sit in the sun for a few hours. That's when we discovered the front vent was only held on by the LAP sealant. The back vent was held on by very rusty screws. We removed both vents and will replace them with new ones. We also scraped off the sealant around the center seam cover, which basically just fell off afterwards.

I have a few questions for anyone that has replaced the vents and/or the center seam cover.

• Why are there wood risers for the vents? Both of ours were cracked and partially rotted, which may explain much of the leaking. Isn't it better to have the vents sitting directly on the roof? Either way, I plan to use butyl tape to seal the vents. Do I need to use LAP sealant or tape as well to cover the screws and edges?
• I'm planning on using polywood (composite) to replace the rotted wood in the ceiling. I'm not really concerned about an extra pound or two of weight. I'd rather not have rotting wood if we develop another leak. Does anyone know of reason not to use polywood?
• The polystyrene in the ceiling that was by the rotted wood is covered in either mold or remnants of the rotted wood. I've read that CLR or bleached based cleaners are the best way to clean that up. Has anyone used these or something else?
• The center seam does not appear to have been glued or sealed at the factory. Is it OK to run a bead of caulk in between the pieces to seal it? Also, I'd rather not spend the time to clean up the old center strip. Has anyone found a suitable replacement for it? It seems to be a firm, but flexible rubber strip.
• After spending that much time on the roof, it's apparent it needs to be painted. Sections of it have been scraped down to bare metal, and there are scratches and dents all over it. Can we put a liquid rubber coating on it, or is paint a better option? Any recommendations? Should I tape (EternaBond or equivalent) around the vents and over the center seam before coating/painting the roof?

Sorry for the long post, but I said, we are new to this and trying to learn as we go.

 

[Wavery]

I would be very concerned about that mold. The mold could be more extensive than in appears. Check the rear seal of the front roof to see if there is wood rot there. Also, check around the entry door. You may be biting off more than you can chew. Best to find out before you spend a lot of time on it.

As for the center strip on the roof. A lot of people remove that center strip and replace it with "Eternabond" tape. It's a little tricky to keep it straight. I recommend doing some youtube research. I have found that snapping a chalkline to follow works well.

https://www.amazon.com/EternaBondRV-RoofSeal-MicroSealant-Thickness-EB-RW040-50R/dp/B002RSIK4G/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3FU3XA5FTRPD2&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.r_7lIq1H3UuhY239gsnnap4ZWCzCEWbcyYMlL9hjTzpjZjGD1tSIhKfcfDdX_LRhp3lBI4rV-Tw1tVkEYr8W1tg3XOlc2P3fT3XDVTbhsv5uUodnF0jjEV5pJz904E6ZMDDfovzPYf5GP2PoW_lM763YZsyAu11csmLf7eToAkb50f2_3XmwBhdm5yFWJEpuNSLd5H14gm9524UqK-5vjGaiVaaT0PHx3DfrFEkgdcU._pmOOo-v42DFV8lj5uBGweJs2kkBUanfwVJP6BHDa-4&dib_tag=se&keywords=eternabond%2Brv%2Broof%2Btape&qid=1747229550&sprefix=eternabond%2Caps%2C190&sr=8-1&th=1

 

[Bill]

I would be very concerned about that mold. The mold could be more extensive than in appears. Check the rear seal of the front roof to see if there is wood rot there.... You may be biting off more than you can chew. Best to find out before you spend a lot of time on it.

I am concerned about more than the mold. What I think I am seeing is that at some time in the past 25 years, a lot of water begin dripping from multiple spots inside. Cause unknown at this point, but the amount of caulk suggests widespread leaks rather than spot leaks. The owner began throwing sloppy caulk, inside and out, near every drip point, which had the unfortunate result of trapping the water inside the wall and roof structures. In those days, RVs including TMs were built with wooden frames, like houses. Most RVs still are, though TM switched to aluminum in the 2002-2004 time frame. And trapped water on wooden frame members means rotted wood.

In addition to checking the rear seal of the front roof, as Wavery suggested, I would suggest that you open the trailer, stand back far enough or high enough that you can see the rear edge of the front roof, and confirm that it has a substantial upward arc. The center of that roof edge should be maybe 2" higher than the ends of the edge. If the roof is flat or cupped downward, there is enough rot that a fix will be very hard.

Please let us now what you find.

Bill

 

[Bill]

[T]here are scratches and dents all over the roof.

The dents might be hail damage, which would explain a lot. Did any of the dents break through the aluminum skin?

 

[Joe1963]

I was thinking hail damage as well, based on the pattern, size and amount of dents.

The bag seal on the rear of the front shell definitely needs to be replaced. I can see foam through the canvas. That will probably be the next project once we get the roof fixed up. I'm working on getting a price from the factory for the replacement. Based on the rusty staples and the condition of the seal, I'm guessing the wood behind it will need replaced as well.

There is still an arch to the roof. I would not say it is two inches though.

While cleaning off the excess caulk around the back vent, I did find where the polystyrene has delaminated from the inside ceiling. I'm not sure what, if anything, can be done to fix that.

I've attached a picture showing a bit of an arch and what remains of the bag seal from before we removed the vents.

Does anyone have a good product to remove the remnants of the old caulk on lap seal? We are using mineral spirits, but that seems to be weakening the paint/roof covering as well.

 

[Wavery]

If you are really looking for a project to work on that will end up costing you more than the trailer is worth plus (possibly) hundreds of man hours of labor, you've found the right TM.

I've gotta be honest with you, from what you describe, that trailer isn't worth fixing and could be a real health hazard just to work on, much less camp in. In my opinion, your $ would be better spent finding a TM that is in better condition.

The delamination that you mentioned is not curable and will likely get worse over time. The roof leaks may have rotted the wood frame that the walls attach to and the floor itself.

 

[Bill]

Your picture does not show an air conditioner. Does your TM not have one? Or is it one of the cabinet-mounted units near the floor of the hallway? The 2001 date was near the changeover from cabinet to roof.

 

[Joe1963]

Wavery: I'm beginning to think you are correct. The more we try to fix, the more issues we find.

Bill: The air conditioner is mounted in a cabinet in the hallway.

I was going to spray the polystyrene with white vinegar to kill off the mold tonight, but noticed when I pressed on the roof around the one vent, water came out from the foam. So now we have to figure out how to dry that out. I'm thinking replacing the entire top shell would be faster and easier than trying to fix this one. The back shell seems to be in good shape.

 

[Kidkraz]

Joe, try hydrogen peroxide first. Just a small amount to see if it has a negative effect on the styrene. I came across some mold on my old popup and found peroxide cleaned the mold and didn't damage the canvas. I've used it when I came across a small nasty patch when prepping a house I had for sale. Once the bubbles disappeared, I washed with soap and water. It did great. Again do a test to see how it works. Good luck.

 

[Bill]

[W]hen I pressed on the roof around the one vent, water came out from the foam. So now we have to figure out how to dry that out.

And that is the problem. The entire roof assembly is a big wood frame surrounding a single slab of cut-to-fit rigid foam, with aluminum sheets glued (laminated) to the entire wood and foam assembly, inside and out. If the foam is water soaked, there is no way to dry it out. And if the wood is rotted, there is no way to replace it.

I'm thinking replacing the entire top shell would be faster and easier than trying to fix this one.

I'm told that the factory will sell and install a new front shell, but the cost is quite high.

Before you go much further, your next step is probably to contact the factory and describe your findings. Your goals will be to confirm the construction I have described, ask for advice, and check the price of a new front shell. Include the trailer's VIN number in your query. Your contact with the factory will be paul (at) trailmanor (dot) com. Paul is very helpful and very responsive, and may have some ideas that we have not described here. He will see that the proper people are assigned to your query.

BTW, here is a very similar thread. Is this also you?

2001 Trailmanor 2619 - Mold and rotted wood

My husband and I just purchased a 2001 Trailmanor 2619. After we got it home, it started raining and we realized there was water leaking around some of the windows, the vents in the roof, and around the door. We tore the wallpaper off of the wood panel on the wall behind one of the couches and...

www.trailmanorowners.com

Bill

 

[Wavery]

Wavery: I'm beginning to think you are correct. The more we try to fix, the more issues we find.

Bill: The air conditioner is mounted in a cabinet in the hallway.

I was going to spray the polystyrene with white vinegar to kill off the mold tonight, but noticed when I pressed on the roof around the one vent, water came out from the foam. So now we have to figure out how to dry that out. I'm thinking replacing the entire top shell would be faster and easier than trying to fix this one. The back shell seems to be in good shape.

 

[Wavery]

You might want to explore the wood in the lower camper frame. The main camper frame is made up of 2x3s. The walls and other attachments, like your lift system, are attached to that wood.

I would suggest pulling a couple of screws out of the lift hinge plate (0n each side of the trailer) and see if rotted wood comes out with the screws.

 

[Joe1963]

Bill: I saw that post as well, but it is not us.

 

[Joe1963]

Well, I finally had some time to work on the TM today. I removed one lag screw from each of the lift hinge plates. None of them came out with rotted wood. Though, I did find several of the screws were loose. I'm still working on getting the water out of the roof, but it's getting better.

On another note, the TrailManor factory will replace the front shell, unfortunately, it will cost $14,000 plus labor. So that's completely out of the question. Looks like we will continue to fix it up as best we can.

 

[Bill]

I removed one lag screw from each of the lift hinge plates. None of them came out with rotted wood. Though, I did find several of the screws were loose.

Well that's good news, since that is one of the highest stress points in the structure. Loose screws/bolts in this location are not unheard of, and something that all owners should check for once in a while. TM originally used lag screws (aka big wood screws) in that location. More recently they switched to machine screws (nuts and bolts), which are stronger and easier to use, but make it harder to spot faults in the wood. So I am glad to see your results. The integrity of the front shell is still uncertain, but your results so far - especially the presence of some crown along the rear edge - are encouraging. I'm not sure how to remove water from the shell structure, but long-term application of a strong fan close against any openings, to force dry air into the structure, couldn't hurt.
Good work. We wish you all success.

 

[Shrimpburrito]

I echo Wayne's and Bill's comments on the magnitude of this project. Like old plumbing, even the smallest projects can get massive scope creep.

I just wanted to comment on 2 questions in your original post.

1) The "wood risers", while they look like wood, are actually PVC. If they were wood, they'd have to be painted, which would have peeled long ago, and the wood would also be rotted. They are there of course to raise the vent a bit off the roof, which is critical so that the parts of the vent on the inside, like the vent crank, clear the rear roof when you fold the camper. When I re-did my roof vents, I simply bought some PVC board stock from Lowes and cut to fit, using PVC cement to glue the joints. Works perfect.

2) I'm not sure I would use Polywood to replace the rotted wood. It might work ok, and obviously won't rot, but you may have difficulty getting any adhesives to stick to it well, which will make creating a seal difficult, and I find that stuff easily flexes at longer lengths, and so has little structural strength. Of course, they probably flex less than rotted wood though. I don't know exactly how the factory put aluminum tubing in there, mostly how do they make the joint at the ridgeline, but if that were just as easy to do, that would be my first choice.

Dave

 

[Wavery]

In my opinion, the strongest repair for that rotted roof wood, would be to buy a 4x8 sheet of marine plywood. Cut 2 or 3 pieces of the required length with the 2" arch. Just draw the arch on the plywood and cut it out with a jigsaw. Sand the pieces with 80G sand paper and glue and clamp them together with wood glue. After 24hrs, coat the entire piece with epoxy resin. You would end up with a 2 1/4" thick arch that will be stronger than the original and will not rot. It will also accept staples for the bag seal.

 

[dsh1972]

When did they stop using wood in the roof?

 

[Joe1963]

Dave: Upon closer inspection, it looks like you are correct. The risers are not wood, but they split just like wood. One of ours split when they ran a screw through it, probably on the day they put it on. I'll look for the PVC "wood" and use that to build out new risers and maybe even use it in the ceiling.

Wavery: I like your idea for the arch. I'll keep that in mind when we get to that step of the project.

dsh1972: Our TM is a 2001 model, and it had/has wood in the roof, unfortunately it has been leaking for a long time and the wood in the ceiling around the vents had rotted out.

 

[dsh1972]

Dave: Upon closer inspection, it looks like you are correct. The risers are not wood, but they split just like wood. One of ours split when they ran a screw through it, probably on the day they put it on. I'll look for the PVC "wood" and use that to build out new risers and maybe even use it in the ceiling.

Wavery: I like your idea for the arch. I'll keep that in mind when we get to that step of the project.

dsh1972: Our TM is a 2001 model, and it had/has wood in the roof, unfortunately it has been leaking for a long time and the wood in the ceiling around the vents had rotted out.

I am looking at a 2003 2619 and am wondering if the roof is wood as well