Microsoft announces "end of life" date for Windows XP

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

Win 8 is not very popular, for the kind of reasons you are experiencing. I wonder if BestBuy would consider removing Win 8 and installing a registered copy of Win 7 in its place?

Bill

This is a thought but when we talked with them yesterday about setting up the computer and loading some new software we were buying they just weren't interested. But then from the store reviews the one in Tallahassee we went to doesn't get real good personal service reviews. Maybe a trip to Gainsville is in order.
Better yet maybe the computer guy in Perry can set us up with something, 10 minutes from the house so that would be nice even if one has to pay more. I knew win 8 was going to be a night mare from what our daughter had said but this is worse. The last
MS software that really worked was Dos 6.2.....oh well that is living in the past for sure

 

[Padgett]

You are not going to get much help from the big box shops. As here, the online forums are where you can really find out what is going on and how to make better. All of the majors have them.

ps Lenovo bought most of IBM's PC business.

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

Not a problem any more, DW spent all morning messing with it. Pages were opening to install stuff including from Toshiba faster then she could close them. Something was blocking partial access to her favorite library. Five other computers and an Android based tablet work fine. Anyways she shut it down and said it goes back on Thursday. It either came with malware or picked it during the setup process where win 8.1 wants you to go on line.:new_argue

 

[Padgett]

FYI when it insists on going online to login if you select "Create New Account" then toward the bottom there will be a line in small print that says "Use Local Account". Select that and you can create a local admin account.

(From memory so text may not be exact quotes)

 

[oldstick-TMO]

My first PC was a VAX & played my first compuer game in 1957.

Now that is what I call a PC.

Way, way before the days someone realized they could turn computers into a gigantic marketing/advertising tool.

 

[Padgett]

11/780 made a good room heater but fingers still remember how to boot a PDP 8.

 

[oldstick-TMO]

11/780 made a good room heater but fingers still remember how to boot a PDP 8.

I used to know the VMS commands pretty well, but probably forgot most of it by now...

We actually have an HP server where I work that is running a Windows based VAX emulator. Perfectly emulates all the old hardware, including disk drives and everything. It runs the original VMS and the applications from 1980s verbatim with no changes whatsoever to the applications software.

 

[Padgett]

Problem with emulators is that they are usually slow but if you don't care about speed, only issue would be in emulating the "2's compliment" math. Lots easier than EBCDIC. At the heart, all computers really need to do the same things.

Once upon a time I did everything in either machine code, BIOS code, DCL, Fivetran, or ADA including a Mil-Std-1750A emulator on a 11/750.

In the winter of '88 I was inside the beltway designing machine interfaces at an agency when they got hit by the Brain. My VP1600 had a BIOS debugger so I wrote a throwaway program to get rid of the annoyance and next thing I know, that's my job.

Nice thing about this century is that now I can combine my hobbies: computers and cars.

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

Now you guys are really living in the past. The stuff I worked with was more modern; used push buttons to load the 0 & 1 assembly program. The memory was something else too. Four 2x3 foot 16 k core boards and a 90k hard drive that took two of us to lift it. To reboot the sytem if the hard drive was down we used state of the art punched tape; it was Mylar. Now those were the days.

 

[oldstick-TMO]

Now you guys are really living in the past. The stuff I worked with was more modern; used push buttons to load the 0 & 1 assembly program. The memory was something else too. Four 2x3 foot 16 k core boards and a 90k hard drive that took two of us to lift it. To reboot the sytem if the hard drive was down we used state of the art punched tape; it was Mylar. Now those were the days.

On the contrary, that sounds older than my experience. However, the first programming class I ever had in college (FORTRAN) our assignments had to be done on IBM punch cards, dropped off at the school's business office and picked up the next day to find out how bad we had screwed it up.

 

[Padgett]

Sounds like a 1401. And for the super trivia points: What was the magic marker for ?

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

On the contrary, that sounds older than my experience. However, the first programming class I ever had in college (FORTRAN) our assignments had to be done on IBM punch cards, dropped off at the school's business office and picked up the next day to find out how bad we had screwed it up.

They made us type up our own at UCF, were running circuit analysis. Had maybe 20 cards max and the computer geeks hated us cause we had learned how to cheat the system so our ran first. Took a lot computer time compared to theirs but they had to type up a hundred or more cards for what amounts to about 10 or 20 lines of basic.

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

Sounds like a 1401. And for the super trivia points: What was the magic marker for ?

For us it was so we didn't have to remember the half dozen assembly instruction to run the tape reader so it could load the boot strap program.
Wasn't a 1401. Was a Westinghouse unit to run a power plant. We ripped that all out years ago and replaced it with a unix based pc system with auto cad to change the control algorithms. Oh, and spider of course.

 

[wbmiller3]

On the contrary, that sounds older than my experience. However, the first programming class I ever had in college (FORTRAN) our assignments had to be done on IBM punch cards, dropped off at the school's business office and picked up the next day to find out how bad we had screwed it up.

I am from the same era; we had to put a special card at the front of the deck with our name, class code, etc. I still remember the prof in the class after the first homework assignment saying "Will the six people who submitted their deck with YOURNAME in the name field kindly see me after class..."

The card era ended while I was in college, but in my first job working for a flight simulator company, there was still at least one large military flight simulator made by the company that used punch cards.

 

[Padgett]

In my time each card had one line of code, I used a card wound on a drum in the keypunch formatted for line number at the start and the AFAIR the code started in position 7, a card held 80 columns each with one character so a code line was never more than 72 character. This is why Fortran lines were never more than 72 characters plus the card number & early displays were 80 columns wide (though some were 132).

Is also why I skipped the first generation of PCs like the Trash 80 or VIC 20 because the TV displays they used could only handle 40 columns. Besides storage was on casette tape. My '83 VP1600 could do 80 & had dual 360k floppies, where my habit of having programs on one disk and data on another began.

Meanwhile at one point I was able to code at over 200 cards an hour and thought strange. Think that was FORTRAN II (best one for me was Fortran V which added if-then-else)

So a large program could easily have 500 or 1000 cards and represented months of work. We used to keep programs in shoe boxes and the magic marker was to draw a diagonal stripe on the deck. That way if a card or cards got in the wrong place it was easy to spot.

Good thing this is off topic...

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

I remember the computer geeks doing the magic marker trick now.
The Toshiba with win 8.1 goes back today for refund. Found some interesting things on the net, one has to be careful here, people were reporting some of the low end Toshiba machines were coming with a form of malware from the factory? I can't picture this but who knows. What we saw could have been some form of malware but I think it was more a case of try me and buy me stuff being installed without you telling to. PC's have come preloaded with sample software for years but you have always had to click the short cut to install it in the past. Don't know at this point but when we get back from Talley we are stopping at the local guy to take a real close look at what he offers. Price is right and even we incur a 50 buck set charge we will be ahead of the Best Buy deal. The local store will let there guy do some stuff on store time but at some point they require him to do it on his own time after store hours. The local outfit is a Radio Shack/Cox electronics store. It even looks like the old time Radio shack with real electronic parts not just cell phones.

 

[oldstick-TMO]

If I recall most of our assignments in the beginner class weren't shoebox size, but maybe 50 or 100 cards (lines of code) to type up. But we quickly learned to snap a rubber band around the deck and leave it there to keep it from getting dropped or reshuffled.. :new_Eyecr

 

[Padgett]

One of my tabs is the Original (last December) version of the Toshiba Encore WT8 (selected because it was 64 bit capable and has a GPS) and it is running 8.1 with nothing but what I have allowed to install. For AV I am using Windows Defender and EMET set paranoid. Only real annoyance was having to obtain a special Y cable so that I could maintain the battery and use the USB. Have used it as a GPS in my TV (see something TM related). Also have over 500 albulms on a SD card.

That said for travelling I really prefer my aunchient (2011) netbook. The major issue I have with a tab particularly with a dock (keyboard,mouse, RJ45, DVD, 1GB disk, & dual 22+" monitors) is the sheer setup time. With Android or iOS you have near instant gratification & all can use the same hotspot.

Best comparison is a steam car vs a gas buggy. What killed steam was the delay between ignition and go. Gasoline and Apples are better for people who just want instant gratification. OTOH the delay between startup and usable on a Windows machine leaves plenty to time to make a cuppa or feed the cats.

 

[Bill]

[O]ne has to be careful here, people were reporting some of the low end Toshiba machines were coming with a form of malware from the factory? I can't picture this but who knows. What we saw could have been some form of malware but I think it was more a case of try me and buy me stuff being installed without you telling to.

Dell computers are famous for this. By the way, I like Dell. But I finally ran across a program out there called the "Dell Decrapifier" which was written specifically to remove all that pre-installed try-me software. Works well. Apparently it has been expanded beyond Dell machines, and seems now to be called the "PC Decrapifier".

Bill

 

[scrubjaysnest-TMO]

It is amazing how computers are supposed to make life easier. Went to make a simple change to my anti virus software, increase the number of pc's on the license. Should be easy right, just add the pc's and pay the difference right; not hardly. You have to call customer support and spend 30 minutes on the phone because they cannot deviate from the "script". Besides all the things you have to agree to you have to cancel auto renew, then get a refund, then buy a new license , then delete all copies of the program under the old license, then re install the very same program on all computers plus the two new ones just so a new activation code can be entered. Wow An hour later I have three computers to go. Sounds like make work but should keep big company IT's busy Oh, forgot to mention subscription stuff like software I use a separate e-mail account and they have jumped on the no copy and paste band wagon that Windows 8 has brought upon us. That means forward the e-mail to another account that does support copy and paste just to avoid a typo.