I've found a 2005 3023 for sale--advice so appreciated!

[Popmom]

This would be a great floor plan for my family. I have two main concerns: 1. longer length might mean harder to back in or park. 2. The age.

Here is the sellers description. I really appreciate all the detail he included, but I need advice on what to follow up on or what if any issues should be a deal breaker.

"History - We are the third owners. The first owner bought it new from the factory. The second owners purchased it sometime around 2008 with hopes of camping with their grandkids. They only camped once a year until I purchased it in 2013.

A/C has new control unit (replaced Summer 2015). Compressor and thermostat are functional.
Fridge - three way power unit - Gas, electric, and battery. I could never get the gas portion of the fridge to work. It cools and maintains temp fine through electric or battery.
Hot water heater - 6 gallon gas or electric
AM/FM/CD/AUX input radio works. System has indoor speakers only
Battery is a deep cycle Marine. Replaced Feb 2016
Tires - New as of Summer 2015
No leaks in the water system. Outdoor shower is not operational due to pervious owner not winterizing properly. The line is capped off.
Grey and Black tank lines are secure and no leaks.
Sink in Bathroom has crack that has been patched with silicon.
Replaced bathtub faucet and shower head Spring 2014
Convection Microwave oven is in brand new condition. We only used it once to heat up water.
All three burners on the gas stove work.
The small rubber cap over the city water hook up is missing
Flooring is is excellent shape
Sofas and beds are in excellent condition. No stains, no tears
Awning is functional and is not mildewed.
Silicon seals around the entire trailer will eventually need replacing. We had plans to do this in the next year or so. It is an on going maintenance item that has to be addressed every four or five years.
Plastic edge bumpers on front of camper have cracked. I have contacted the company to see if I can purchase replacements. It does not effect the use or safety of the camper.


Purchase includes a few items, like an outdoor rug, grey water portable tank, indoor trash cans, all original manuals, propane tanks, sway bars and hitch, various tarps, and other misc items.


There is minimal wear on the body and interior, but it is not without it’s flaws for a model that is 11 years old. Trail Manors open on a lever system, and seal with velcro and vinyl flaps. You can find many videos on YouTube displaying the process. The seals are all secure, and we have had no leaking or issues on the inside. There are a few spots that are not as stiff as they were years ago. There are two spots that are the most obvious.

The seal under the front bed collects water runoff when it rains. This is a design flaw of 3023’s. It doesn’t effect the seal and the collection occurs outside the trailer on the underside, not on the inside. And since Trail Manors have no wood in the construction, there is zero chance of wood rot.

The rubber seal on the rear bed does not close completely, creating a draft at night. The area is about 1 inch by 2 inches. We solved the issue by placing a blanket the length of the bed against the wall."

What do the TM experts think? too many issues? How much does it cost to replace a roof AC unit? For any who took the time to read all this--THANK YOU! You are helping make my camping dreams come true.

 

[gonzo628]

I am not an expert, but you did ask for opinions. First, have you seen it? If yes, does his written description match? Depending on what is wrong with the fridge (gas) it may be an easy fix. Of course if you never dry-camp (camp without hookups), it probably isn't an issue. The seller mentions that there are 2 "most obvious" spots where the seals are not as stiff as they once were. If you've not seen it yet, that would be a point of interest. What does he mean by this? What adverse effects might be encountered due to this condition...

A point of contention...the seller said that TMs have no wood in the construction. I believe that to be false. After 2002-3ish, the TMs were no longer wood-framed, but there is still wood in the construction.

Finally, as long as there are parts and desire, stuff can be fixed. The question(s) become:

1) Is it as good/bad as described?

2) Are you handy / know someone who is?

3) If not, do you have access to a reputable service pro?

4) Is it something you would even want to put up with?

 

[Popmom]

I have not seen it. It is about 3 hours away from me. I am having to trust his description, but you are rigiht in that some of it isn't very clear to me about stuff not being as stiff as it once was. I will definitely have to get that cleared up. I don't want a money pit. But at least this guy seems to be fairly forthcoming about the flaws. In other words--I'll know what I'm getting.

How much do roof acs cost to replace? I'm nervous that this one has had to be repaired. He describes the condition as functional, but not "will freeze you out". That kinda makes me wonder.

He didn't say how it's been stored. I asked him that when I replied to his email. I also asked about tire size and whether the thing opens and closes properly/with relative ease.

 

[Padgett]

DIY Roof AC is about $800 last I looked, having a professional do it would double that. The stock 13,500 is plenty for my 2720SL in Florida heat.

May need three pieces: roof AC, gasket, & ceiling assembly.

 

[gonzo628]

I put an Carrier AirV 15k BTU A/C, which I bought on ebay from an RV company in Florida. I want to say I spent about $560 for it... I installed it myself.

A quick ebay search showed 13,500 - 15k btu units for $500 - $700. Be aware that some posts only include the upper unit (no ceiling assembly).

 

[ChefLamont]

No TM expert here either, but my 2 cents.

Not to cast aspersions on the seller, but I take all descriptions with an entire salt lick. I am sure what they said is right........in their mind. I have known people that were over the top OCD and could find 1000 things wrong with something most people think is mint. Conversely, I have known people that would say something is near perfect when it was, well, very much not.

For something like a camper, I would take your own checklist and do a thorough inspection for yourself. You decide how the condition is for you and what you can live with. If you dont feel comfortable doing that yourself, have someone come along that is familiar with campers as a second set of eyes. For all the years both of us have been around RVs, my dad and I shop for them together. Every time, we both see different things and end up "catching" things the other doesnt. There are also paid inspection services if you are still uneasy.

Having said all that, this one sounds on face value to me to be worth the drive to look at (if the price is not outrageous). Or at least if I were ready to buy, I would. Have you seen pics if it? A first step is to ask the seller to email you a lot of pics. That should give you a good deciding point to make the drive.


Again, just my opinion. Worth at least twice what you paid for it.

 

[Craigrrr]

If it is the size you are looking for. then I would take the 3 hour /6 hour round trip and make a fun excursion out of it. I went to to look at a few about 1000 miles away, when I got there I did not buy as it was not what was described to me . Was it hard to leave without it... Yes it was cause I wanted one so bad. But I left it there and so glad I did as in a few weeks later I found one 8 yrs newer and $600 more . So take your time go see it in person try to open and close it by yourself etc...

 

[Padgett]

ps lowest I can set the thermostat is about 64F. Gets there in about an hour at 90F and then it cycles. Is like a home AC and not a car. Remember an Avanti that would blow snow then freeze up.

33-38F at the outlet & small volume is a "freeze you out" & saw somewhere that a car AC is around 36,000 btu, twice an RV for much smaller volume (but one likely to start at 140F).

 

[Bill]

I like Gonzo's question: do you, or any member of your family, consider yourself "handy"? I'm not talking "master mechanic", but do you know which end of a screwdriver will stab your hand? Gonzo is also right about wood in the frame. The change from wood to aluminum happened in the upper shells, where most leaks (and hence the most danger of rot) occur. But the floor is still wood-framed.

I'm not particularly concerned with the A/C. Who knows why they replaced the control panel, but that is not a high failure item. If it works, that means that the cooling mechanism works and has not leaked its coolant away. You will of course ask to see it work when you get there - ask in advance if they can power it up at home. If not, you will want some solid assurance, and maybe a guarantee, that it works.

You can replace the sink in the bathroom if you choose to. Not very hard, and not very expensive. Or you can live with what's there.

The "silicone seals" probably refers to caulking. Recaulking is a time-consuming and annoying job, but it is not hard. There is lots of discussion here on the forum.

The "plastic edge bumpers" probably refers to the vertically-oriented trim pieces on the front shell, where the front wall meets the side wall. The factory does have replacements in stock, and you can buy them, but this is not a job I would recommend if you can avoid it. I agree with the owner - unless chunks are actually missing, it does not affect the use or safety, but any cracks should be sealed up with caulk to keep water out.

I do not understand what is meant by the seals leaking and collecting water under the front bed. I would ask for clarification of this, and photos illustrating exactly what parts are involved. Exactly where does the water collect, and how much? I disagree that this is a design flaw and a common problem - I don't think I've heard of it before.

On the other hand, the air leak around the rear bed is common. Many people deal with it with swimming pool noodles.

Final question that you may have answered earlier. What is your tow vehicle? Is it equipped with a seven-way electrical plug near the trailer hitch (NOT a four-way or five-way with an adapter!) Does it have an electric brake controller? You must not attempt to hook up and go without these two items.

I agree with Craig - go see it and make a fun trip of it. And by the way, a longer trailer is actually easier to back than a short one. Think of the big 18-wheeler trucks - a little short cab, and a 53-foot trailer. The short cab can maneuver around quickly, and push the trailer exactly where the driver wants it. You will learn with experience and practice.

Bill

 

[Popmom]

Thank you all so much for the help. Great info here. I've read every word. My husband is pretty handy--he does lots of stuff around the house like installing toilets, sinks, faucets, light fixtures, brakes on cars, etc. It's just a matter of does he want more to add to the stuff he already does. We'll have to discuss this and decide if we want to drive over and look. Oh, and our tow vehicle is a 2015 Tacoma with towing package. I'll have to double check with dh that it has all the correct connections etc.

 

[Bill]

Mom -

You are in even better shape than I thought. Your husband sounds more than sufficiently handy if he can do all that. Motivation is a different question - but you wouldn't be buying a trailer if he weren't motivated to keep it up, right? And if your Tacoma came with the factory-installed towing package, it should be sufficient.

The remaining questions are easy.
1. Does the Tacoma have a built-in brake controller as part of the towing package? By 2015 a lot of trucks have one, but you must confirm it. If it doesn't have one, you must buy and install one before you hook up the trailer. I suggest that a good brand is Tekonsha, not because it is best in the world (there are others just as good), but because lots of people have them and like them, and there is a lot of experience you can lean on. No matter what you choose, be sure it has the word "proportional" or "inertia" in the description.
2. Your Tacoma has a 7-way electrical connector as part of the towing package. Make sure that the 12 VDC power pin is energized. For unknown reasons, some truck manufacturers install the connector and hook it up perfectly, but leave the fuse that energizes it in a little bag in the glove compartment.

I'm referring to the pin marked "12V" in this diagram. It is probably energized only when the truck's ignition key is ON.

http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/album.php?albumid=8&pictureid=442

Bill

 

[Popmom]

thanks, Bill--I'll show my husband. Well, after he's had time to decompress from this week.

 

[HIKERZ]

I agree with Bill in reference to caulking. It,s something that is an issue that you just have to deal with. You can do it yourself if you are comfortable and able to string a nice long bead or pay someone a lot of money to do it. Either way there is nothing worse then a leak taking away your cozy on a rainy day.

 

[Popmom]

For future reference: This addresses the issue with the water collecting in the seal. http://www.trailmanorowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10112&highlight=seal+water

 

[tentcamper]

get lots of pictures and then go look at it. Has it been stored outside?

Does not sound like this person fixed any thing. small or large?

 

[Popmom]

get lots of pictures and then go look at it. Has it been stored outside?

Does not sound like this person fixed any thing. small or large?

just to clarity--the thread I posted is not the actual seller of the trailer I'm interested in--it's just that he was having the same problem. So that was a completely different 3023. And the seller I'm talking to said his issue was not as extensive as the one in the thread. (I emailed it to him.) He had water in a portion of the seal--not the whole seal.

From the thread: "For the real fix you will need to get to the place on the seal where the rain comes in and refold and staple it. Then seal it with a good silicon seal." Seller has made this repair since listing the camper and says so far no more water has entered. (It has rained since he repaired) He sent pictures. The seals look intact--not deteriorating. just a little dirty. It is normally stored outside under an ADCO cover (I think that's what it's called). I'm assuming he left it uncovered to see if the repair worked. He claims that his seal is not stapled to wood--that it is a composite material. I will have to verify that and how long the problem went on before he addressed it. I'm definitely not sold on this particular trailer. I mainly posted for informational purposes since this isn't a common problem apparently.

Feel free to continue to advise me! I am still considering it. I think his price is too high, but I'm patient. I'm still willing to go check it out, but I can't make the trip until later in the month. If it hasn't sold by then, we may go look.

 

[Craigrrr]

The best suggestion I can offer as to looking for a TM is Camping World, look in their back lots as they normally want to sell and carry the BIG BOY Trailers and coaches . They really dont know what they have if they have a TM on their lot. I picked mine up for a song the salesman did not even know how to open it up

 

[Robert's TM]

On the AC I had to replace the start capacitor when the compressor tried to kick on it would kick breaker. I went ahead and replaced all 3 capacitors ( start, run, and fan ). Wasn't that much more.

AC has been working great ever since!