Elkmont mpg

[brulaz]

IMHO it seems that the Tacoma is not going to be enough truck to SAFELY handle the Elkmont. There is a big difference between just getting by with a tow vehicle and having something that gives you the comfort level that all is under control. Given the big investment that you are making on the Elkmont it would seem prudent to go with a full-size TV. Now this advice and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Bill

Thanks Bill, but this is all about compromises.

I would love a full size F150. But, a 4x4 (wife demands this) is just too big for our Condo parking, much heavier and will burn more gas.

Of the compact 4x4 pickups, the Tacoma has the most power and torque with a 5 speed tranny. (I was originally looking at a GMC Inline 5, but the 4 speed tranny, although tough, didn't seem right for the Rockies.)

And the Tacomas seem to have a good reputation on this board. There are several posters running them.

 

[mtnguy]

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.

In addition to all of the good advice already given, I will throw this suggestion in the pot. A long wheelbase is a good thing when towing a trailer, especially a conventional 24 footer. A Taco with a 5000, or better yet a 6500 lb. tow rating, should handle that trailer fine, as long as it is 1 of the longer wheel base models. That might be why you can't find a regular cab with the towing package......Toyota probably does that to encourage safer towing. A regular cab Taco wheelbase is 109", an access cab and the double cab short bed are both 127" (apparently the bed is shortened on the double cab), and a double cab with long bed is 140". The last will would be the best, but the 127" wheelbases should work OK.

Plus, I only see the 4 cyl. offered with the regular cab. I think you will need that V6 to pull all of that frontal area going down the road.

Here is a widely used tow vehicle wheel base/trailer length chart for conventional trailer towing:

110" 20' **** 150" 30'
114" 21' **** 154" 31'
118" 22' **** 158" 32'
122" 23' **** 162" 33'
126" 24' **** 166" 34'
130" 25' **** 170" 35'
134" 26' **** 174" 36'
138" 27' **** 178" 37'
142" 28' **** 182" 38'
146" 29' **** 186" 39'

Of course, the folding Trailmanors are a different story, since you don't have all of that upright area to contend with.

And something else I don't think was mentioned, is that a Taco with a towing package probably includes a lower (higher numeric) final gear ratio.....a good thing while towing, but might hurt you non-towing mileage.

Just food for thought.

 

[brulaz]

Ooops. My bad. I should have said "access" cab, not short cab. I don't think they even sell a regular, short cab in Canada. And the V6 with a 5 speed automatic for sure.

Just wrote the cheque for our Elkmont.

For the Canadians out there, Ruston R.V. in Hamilton ON, the only TrailManor Canadian dealer AFAIK, told me that they are not importing the Elkmont so you will have to do it yourself. There's a couple of threads on how to do it, and it looks simple.

But you don't want to be paying U.S. state taxes as well as the GST+PST (or HST). There's a few states that don't charge sales tax at all or not on vehicles purchased for export. I bought mine at Texas R.V. Center, but there's also a couple of TrailManor dealers in Oregon, and perhaps elsewhere.

Now all I need is the truck ...

 

[PopBeavers]

fwiw, mostly on the subject of longer wheelbase is better...

I have two trucks that are very similar:

2002 Silverado 1500HD crew cab with 6.5 foot bed 4 speed automatic
2009 Sierra 2500HD crew cab with 8 foot bed 6 speed automatic

both are 6.0 gas 4x4

When towing a 4,100 pound TM 2720 I can tell the difference, because the rig "porpoises" less with the Sierra. I attribute that to two things, stiffer suspension and longer wheelbase.

For the Silverado I use a Prodigy knock off add on brake controller. The Sierra has the factory integrated brake controller. Much smoother operation. Less bumping and grinding. Much more responsive.

I also like my Sierra over the Silverado because it has the factory towing mirrors instead of the McKesh strap on mirrors.

Both get the same fuel economy (or lack thereof).

Both trucks are bigger than they need to be. I like it that way. But my budget is not your budget.

The Silverado became my daily driver when my beater Sentra died last summer. I have logged 7,600 miles on the Sierra since August 2008, when we bought it.

For sake of completeness, I would never have tried towing my Trailmanor with the 97 Dodge Dakota I had until recently.

 

[brulaz]

I bet the Sierra's 6 speed automatic is nice in the mountains as well.

 

[PopBeavers]

I bet the Sierra's 6 speed automatic is nice in the mountains as well.

I know it is there, but I do not feel any difference.

I suspect that if I was towing heavier then it would be more noticeable.

What I do notice about the 6 speed transmission is when it automatically downshifts while going downhill to engage engine braking. I no longer have to do that. Just set it in drive and forget it.

 

[brulaz]

Bought a TV

Well, we just purchased a used 2009 Tacoma 4x4 TRD-Sport with the tow package.

And, after all our fussing about keeping things small, one look at the smaller Access cab changed everything. Too cramped the wife said. So we ended up with a Double Cab four door.

It's just as long as a full-size pickup (141"), but not as wide or as heavy, and so a little easier to maneuver as a second (non-towing) vehicle. But it won't fit in the underground garage; we'll have to park it outside. The other thing I'm not sure about is the electric blue paint job.

Anyway, I've started collecting mileage data and will post back here with the info with and without the Elkmont after we make the trip to Texas to pick up the trailer.

Many thanks to all for the advice here.

 

[Scott O]

Hey, being from SoCal the color is not electric blue. It is DODGER BLUE! And it is a great color!!! Congrats on your new purchase(s). I'm sure yu will be very happy with them.

 

[Dave E]

Hi All,
For what it's worth, I'll say my wife and I use our 2008 Buick Enclave (AWD, Factory tow package, 119" wheelbase, 5,000lb curb weight, 4500lb tow capacity) to tow our Elkmont. We have installed a ProPride hitch and BrakeSmart brake controller. Semi's passing with the trailer are no differernt than when not towing. We get aroung 12+MPG towing here in Colorado and around 20-22 when not towing. We really like our Enclave. It is just a very comfortable car to travel in. I call it a "Land Yacht". We bought the Elkmont because it could be towed by the Enclave. We didn't want to give up our comfortable car for a truck and we didn't want to have to buy and maintain a truck only for towing. So far so good.
Just my two cents.

 

[brulaz]

Yes, that's how we've operated until now. A single vehicle (Passat Wagen, diesel) for both towing (tent trailer) and around town. The Passat gets 38 mpg on the highway, and is a very comfortable Highway Cruiser, but the max towing is only about 2000-2500#. So a heftier vehicle was necessary for the Elkmont.

One car is definitely cheaper than two, but on occasion it would be nice to have a second vehicle available. And, trading in the Passat would definitely be a money loser. It's still got a lot of life left in it, and I love it dearly. Finally, the prospect of driving a bigger, lower-mpg tow vehicle for our daily business didn't really appeal, although the Enclave is a nice piece of work.

So we bought a separate TV. But, as you say, an empty 4x4 pickup can be be a rough ride, especially on the rural frost-heaved roads we have around here. Taking the Tacoma out the other day, I was really rattling around, wishing I had taken the Passat. But with 600# on the hitch, more #'s in the bed and on half-way decent (summer) roads, that will certainly improve. We'll see in about four weeks. Meanwhile, it just makes sense to use the Passat for everything but towing the Elkmont.

 

[Wavery]

Well, we just purchased a used 2009 Tacoma 4x4 TRD-Sport with the tow package.

And, after all our fussing about keeping things small, one look at the smaller Access cab changed everything. Too cramped the wife said. So we ended up with a Double Cab four door.

It's just as long as a full-size pickup (141"), but not as wide or as heavy, and so a little easier to maneuver as a second (non-towing) vehicle. But it won't fit in the underground garage; we'll have to park it outside. The other thing I'm not sure about is the electric blue paint job.

Anyway, I've started collecting mileage data and will post back here with the info with and without the Elkmont after we make the trip to Texas to pick up the trailer.

Many thanks to all for the advice here.

Just be aware.....you may be past "border-line" with that 2009 Tacoma 4x4.

These are the figures that come up on Cars.com
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...tfield=PRICE&certifiedOnly=false&aff=national

Curb weight 4,100 lbs.
GVWR 5,450 lbs.
Payload 1,350 lbs.
Towing capacity 3,500 lbs.
GCWR 8,100 lbs

Of course, the tow pkg may add some to the "Towing Capacity" but you might want to check your actual GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating). That is the total weight that the vehicle is rated for including totally loaded TV and trailer (incl passengers, cargo and fuel).

@ 8100# that doesn't leave a lot of weight for trailer cargo & passengers after you subtract the GVWR of 5450# (most people, camping, usually load the vehicle up pretty good and that # includes the trailer tongue weight).

8100 - 5450= 2650# for your fully loaded trailer. I hope that your actual GCWR is closer to 11,000# but I doubt it. I would be very cautious towing an Elkmont in the mountains with that TV. If that 8100# GCWR is correct, you may have a real problem on long down-hill grades.

Towing is a lot more about stopping than it is about pulling. Pulling slow may take a little longer but not being able to stop could be deadly.

 

[brulaz]

The tow package on the 4x4 Tacoma boosts the Tow Capacity to 6500# and the GCWR to 11,100#. The rest of the numbers are the same.

But I'm pretty cautious towing in the Mountains anyway, using engine compression as much as possible to brake down hills.

 

[Wavery]

The tow package on the 4x4 Tacoma boosts the Tow Capacity to 6500# and the GCWR to 11,100#. The rest of the numbers are the same.

But I'm pretty cautious towing in the Mountains anyway, using engine compression as much as possible to brake down hills.

That's great!!!!! I knew that the tow capacity would be higher, I just wasn't sure about the GCWR. That's the same GCWR that I have on my Chevy 1500 Silverado. I'm impressed.......

A boost of 3,000# on the GCWR would seem to indicate that the factory tow package may include larger brakes and suspension parts.

 

[brulaz]

A boost of 3,000# on the GCWR would seem to indicate that the factory tow package may include larger brakes and suspension parts.

I'm a bit more cynical, actually.

I suspect they low-ball the tow specs on cheaper models to force you to upgrade, just to get the tow package. On a new vehicle, in Canada at least, you have to upgrade to a 4x4 and then add all sorts of other stuff (TRD-Sport package) to get the tow package. Easily adding $10,000 to the vehicle. Even the 4x4 without the tow package is only rated at 3500# which, I think, is ridiculous. All the other compact, auto V6's out there have a 5000# tow rating.

AFAIK, the tow package only includes the hitch, 7 pin wiring, tranny and oil coolers, and boosted alternator and battery. I've never seen any mention of brakes, heavy duty suspension, different rear differential, etc. All these can be done after-market for much less.

On the other hand, my wife always says I'm too negative! Whatever, we're happy with the vehicle so far.

 

[Wavery]

I'm a bit more cynical, actually.

I suspect they low-ball the tow specs on cheaper models to force you to upgrade, just to get the tow package. On a new vehicle, in Canada at least, you have to upgrade to a 4x4 and then add all sorts of other stuff (TRD-Sport package) to get the tow package. Easily adding $10,000 to the vehicle. Even the 4x4 without the tow package is only rated at 3500# which, I think, is ridiculous. All the other compact, auto V6's out there have a 5000# tow rating.

AFAIK, the tow package only includes the hitch, 7 pin wiring, tranny and oil coolers, and boosted alternator and battery. I've never seen any mention of brakes, heavy duty suspension, different rear differential, etc. All these can be done after-market for much less.

On the other hand, my wife always says I'm too negative! Whatever, we're happy with the vehicle so far.

What is the final drive ratio on that Tacoma?

 

[brulaz]

Well, the differential is 3.73, I think.

For comparison, the differential numbers I have for the Ford 150, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota and Mazda B-Series compact are 3.55, 3.73, 3.92, 4.01 respectively.

5th gear in the auto is 1.0 (4th is 0.73) and High in the 4x4 transfer case is 1.0 too.

Of all the V6 compacts, the Tacoma has the most torque, but it's reported at 4000rpm (266@4000). The Ford F150 V8 has 294@4000. Not sure how they do at lower rpm's. My Passat diesel may have more (247@1900)! I would love a small diesel in this thing.

 

[madjan]

we got around 12 mpg with our toyota fj.. 4.0 v6 pulling at first with a side wind then dead into it for about 90 miles..

 

[Wavery]

Well, the differential is 3.73, I think.

For comparison, the differential numbers I have for the Ford 150, GMC Canyon, Dodge Dakota and Mazda B-Series compact are 3.55, 3.73, 3.92, 4.01 respectively.

5th gear in the auto is 1.0 (4th is 0.73) and High in the 4x4 transfer case is 1.0 too.

Of all the V6 compacts, the Tacoma has the most torque, but it's reported at 4000rpm (266@4000). The Ford F150 V8 has 294@4000. Not sure how they do at lower rpm's. My Passat diesel may have more (247@1900)! I would love a small diesel in this thing.

Torque is measured at the flywheel. That's why I asked about the final drive ratio. The lower the gears, the more torque that gets to the ground at the same vehicle speed (because of the higher engine RPM).

The thing that I really loved about my S10 4.3 V6 was that it developed 260# of torque @ 2600RPM. My Silverado 4.8 V8 develops 295# @ 4000RPM and less torque at 2600RPM then the 4.3 V6 did. Like your Tacoma, the max torque is reached @ 4000RPM and no one revs their engine that high over long steep grades (at least I hope they don't). Therefore, the "Real" pulling power on the S10 4.3 V6 was higher (plus the truck was substantially lighter).

I would think that your Tacoma has about the same (or even higher) actual pulling power as my Silverado V8 (3.23 gears) due to your lower gear ratio and far lighter weight (you are probably 2K# lighter over-all).

However, pulling power is only part of the towing experience. What really counts is breaking power. We are probably about equal there. Your truck being lighter allows for your smaller brakes. However, you should be very cautious on long down-hill grades (as should we all). That TM is going to be pushing you hard and the electric brakes on the TM will fade sooner than your truck brakes will. If/when the TM brakes fade, your TV brakes may be shortly behind them.

 

[brulaz]

We just got back from Texas with our Elkmont. Got 14 mpg(US) on the straight and level, cruising on auto-pilot in fifth gear. But only 11 mpg(US) when buffeted by 30-40 mph winds off Lake Erie. No auto-pilot then. It was also close to freezing then which reduces fuel efficiency. Overall, got 12.5 mpg(US) for the trip.