Elkmont mpg

[brulaz]

Have seen a few mpg for the TrailManor drop-down trailers on the site. I think one was around 14 mpg (U.S.) for the 2720, which is not too bad for what you get.

But what sort of mileage would you expect to get hauling the Elkmont at highway speeds with, say, a newer F150, 6 speed? Not in the Rockies, and just a rough guesstimate ... I realize there are a lot of variables.

Currently we have a 2000# GVWR tent trailer hauled with a Passat Diesel Wagen and get around 27 mpg going from Toronto to North of Lake Superior. But age and laziness are getting the best of us.

 

[mtnguy]

I get 10.5 to 11.5 towing a 29 foot Surveyor with my 2006 F150......and I am really careful on the accelerator (and brake, if that makes sense). The Elkmont is lighter and shorter, but don't expect to get much over 12 mpg. The frontal area just kills gas mileage. That is the big advantage of the fold down models.

In comparision, I got 14.5 to 16.3 mpg with my truck and a 2720, with the average being around 15.2 or so. The better mileages were along interstate, and the lower ones were in combinations. You still have to get 3400 extra pounds moving from a stop, plus the weight of the camping gear and stuff in your TV.

 

[brulaz]

Thanks. Guess that's what I should have expected: a bit less than half the mileage that we're getting now because there's 2x the weight and the increased frontal area.

But more than twice the comfort, hopefully. We took our tent trailer to Newfoundland and Labrador several years ago. Had a great time but were cold and wet most of it, and swore that we wouldn't go back without a better trailer.

Still looking at possible tow vehicles and am thinking that maybe an F150 V8 is overkill for the Elkmont. The GMC/Chevy compact pickup comes with an inline 5 engine with enough hp and torque (242hp, 242 ft-#), gets about 15-20% better highway mileage, weighs about 1200# less , and is still rated for 5500# towing (ext. cab model).

For some reason the compact Ford pickup (Ranger) only goes up to 3500# towing even with a V6.

 

[mtnguy]

I don't think the F150 would be overkill for the Elkmont. Heck, I didn't even consider it overkill for my 2720. It is better to have too much tow vehicle than too little. And I am a believer that sometimes a bigger engine will actually give you better gas mileage (and of course more power) than a smaller engine that is working too hard. By what I have read on some of the forums, I should be happy with my gas mileage pulling a conventional trailer. Of course, a lot of that could be in driving technique.

I haven't done a lot of research on the Chevy Colorado (or GMC equivalent) or Dakota, Frontiers, or Tacos, as far as gas mileages, hp, torque, and wheelbases. The Elkmont is a 24 foot conventional trailer, and is probably more prone to sway from traffic and cross winds than the fold down TMs. All of the compacts listed might do a fine job with the Elkmont, but for me I would be more comfortable with a full sized truck......especially in the wheelbase category.

Even though I am a Ford guy, the Ranger would not be an option for me towing the Elkmont.

 

[brulaz]

Yes, a full size pickup would definitely be more stable. In addition to the wheelbase, they do weigh a lot more, especially ones like your F150 Supercab.

From what I see on the web for new trucks:
A 4x2 F150 Supercab weighs 6800# and has a 145" wheelbase.
A 4x2 F150 Regularcab weighs 4830# and has a 126" wheelbase.
A 4x2 GMC Canyon ext. cab weighs 3621# and has a 126" wheelbase.

Your Supercab won't be pushed around by an Elkmont, but the GMC Canyon weighs about the same as the Elkmont, and I imagine that can be felt, especially when it's windy.

At least the Canyon's Extended cab has a fair wheelbase, the same as a reg full size F150.

As for mileage, I'm not so sure. That's a big difference between a 6800# and 3621# and even if you had the same engine in each truck, those extra pounds must cost something in gas mileage.

I guess it's just a trade-off, like so many things, between towing stability obtained through a heavier, longer wheelbase TV and reduced gas mileage.

If the pickup was only used as a TV, then I would probably go the bigger, heavier route, but as this will mostly be used for other stuff, I'm leaning toward the smaller more economical pickup.

 

[mtnguy]

I think the weight that have listed for the F150 Supercab is way off. The cerificate of origin on my F150 Supercab 4x4 was 5286 lbs........I can't believe that the new ones are 1600 lbs. more with 2 wheel drive. Now that being said, I ran the truck across the scales and it weighs in at 5800 lbs, with a bed liner, Trac Rac rails, a WDH ball mount, a tool box in back, ~3/4 tank of gas, and my personal things stuffed at varioius places.

A midsized truck may serve you well, as the Elkmont is pretty light for a conventional camper. I can't argue with your assesment of the advantages of a mid-sized pickup.

The point about the Canyon weighing about the same as a trailer is a good one. My TV and trailer are about the same also. There are plenty of units out there where the trailer is way over the TV weight.

Seems like you are doing your homework, and are well on the way to becoming an informed and safe travel trailer owner. A quality WDH with intregrated sway control such as the Reese Straight Line or Equalizer should serve you well, also.

 

[brulaz]

Thanks, mtnguy, you've been a big help. Running ideas past people can really help sort things out.

And yes, hitches and sway control are on the todo list. I'll probably be back on that, although I see there is lots of info already posted on this forum.

But I've got to work on the financial aspects first ... hmmmm.

A great forum.
Cheers.

 

[Al-n-Sue]

FWIW - I tow a 3124KB with a 2001 Durango 4.7L, AWD, 3.73 gears. (The 3124 actually weighs more than the Elkmont!) I met a guy at a campground (we were both at the dump getting ready to leave) who had a newer Tacoma pickup with club cab and the 3.5 L V-6, pulling a pretty good sized conventional trailer - I'd guess 26-28 ft. We were both headed over Berthod Pass near Winter Park, CO so we ened up driving mostly together to the pass. I watched him most of the way up the pass. And he pretty much left me behind. By the time I got to the top, he was out of sight. The point being the Tacoma apparently has some good towing capability.
Just something more to think about. Good luck.
Alan

 

[brulaz]

Yes, I've got the Tacoma V6 on my spread sheet, and it does look nice.

But for some reason the 4x2 only goes to 3500# towing capacity. So it's a 4x4 that I need and the additional cost associated with that. The way they have it packaged, I would have to spend $5000 more than the GMC 4x2 to get up to #5000 towing capacity.

But who knows. The wife is wondering whether a 4x4 pickup is better in the winter. My understanding is that it would be better in low speed, low traction situations like deep snow, steep driveway, or in the ditch. But when hitting black ice at highway speeds, it's no help at all. It's not a high speed, "on-all-the-time" four wheel drive like the suburu, audi or bmw, but more of an off-the-road, slow speed, on-demand sort of thing.

But I could be wrong, the whole business is confusing with every manufacturer using different names for the same product, and/or the same names for wildly different capabilities.

 

[mtnguy]

No expert on any of this, but here goes.

All Wheel Drive and Full Time 4 Wheel Drive are pretty much the same. If the car feels slippage between the front and back wheels, then the 2nd axle kicks in for traction. That is what the Subarus have, as well as a number of minivans and some other cars.

The kind of 2 wheel drive found in trucks and off-road type SUVs is called Part Time 4 Wheel Drive. You have to physcally shift a lever to go to 4 wheel high or low. 4 wheel high can be driven at highway speeds, and even shifted on the move.......which I don't like to do unless I am going slow. A Part Time 4 Wheel Drive system should not be driven on dry roads.......it needs some slippage between the axles to relief stress on the system. Most of the part time systems also have a low range for rock crawling in the moutains, or if you need extra low speed power, as in beach driving. You can not shift into low range unless you are completely stopped, and in neutral in most of these systems.

You should be able to tell which is in a vehicle by looking inside. A Part Time System will have an extra floor shifter, or buttons or a knob on the dash for the 4 wheel drive.

I have a friend with a 2006 Taco 4x4. I thought he said he had a 6500 lb. tow rating.

 

[MudDog-TMO]

Yes, I've got the Tacoma V6 on my spread sheet, and it does look nice.

But for some reason the 4x2 only goes to 3500# towing capacity. So it's a 4x4 that I need and the additional cost associated with that. The way they have it packaged, I would have to spend $5000 more than the GMC 4x2 to get up to #5000 towing capacity.

The current 4x2 PRE-RUNNER Tacoma's with tow package are rated up to 6500 #'s (for example, Tacoma Dbl-Cab 4x2pre-Runner with tow package).

The Pre-Runner model gives the 4x2 heavier suspension than the non Pre-Runner 4x2 models that are only rated at 3500 lbs.

Current complete Toyota tow guide can be found here:

http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part3.pdf

 

[brulaz]

The kind of 2 wheel drive found in trucks and off-road type SUVs is called Part Time 4 Wheel Drive. You have to physcally shift a lever to go to 4 wheel high or low. 4 wheel high can be driven at highway speeds, and even shifted on the move.......which I don't like to do unless I am going slow. A Part Time 4 Wheel Drive system should not be driven on dry roads.......it needs some slippage between the axles to relief stress on the system. Most of the part time systems also have a low range for rock crawling in the moutains, or if you need extra low speed power, as in beach driving. You can not shift into low range unless you are completely stopped, and in neutral in most of these systems.

You should be able to tell which is in a vehicle by looking inside. A Part Time System will have an extra floor shifter, or buttons or a knob on the dash for the 4 wheel drive.

Thanks, that's a great description, and I think this is what we are looking at. I also remember the constant problems we had with transfer case in trucks at work that that were driven in 4 wheel (high) on mostly dry pavement.

And thanks for the Toyota towing guide, MudDog. But it seems that Toyota Canada has a different set of and fewer options available than Toyota USA. I just rechecked their 2010 Canadian Towing guide, and there is no Pre-Runner option anywhere. The only way I can even get a V6 engine is in the 4x4 model. I'll give them a call to be sure, but it's not uncommon for us to have fewer choices with the smaller market up here in Canada. Irritating, to be sure.

But we may go to 4x4 anyway. When we drove up from Florida last week (no trailer) we ran into snow north of Charleston W.V. There was a lot of slush where 4-wheel (high range) would have been useful. The traction control on the Passat got quite a work-out, and my wife remembers the experience.

But, whew, this thing is getting expensive ...

 

[brulaz]

The current 4x2 PRE-RUNNER Tacoma's with tow package are rated up to 6500 #'s (for example, Tacoma Dbl-Cab 4x2pre-Runner with tow package).

The Pre-Runner model gives the 4x2 heavier suspension than the non Pre-Runner 4x2 models that are only rated at 3500 lbs.

Couple of questions as I just spotted a used 2006 Dbl-cab 4x2 Pre-Runner from the U.S. on sale here in Toronto.
1) How do you tell it's a Pre-Runner? It "looks" heavy duty ...
2) How do you tell if the tow-package was installed?

If the guy selling it has gone to the trouble of converting the U.S. registration to Ontario, and it otherwise checks out, I may be able to persuade the wife on a "bargain" 4x2.

 

[MudDog-TMO]

Couple of questions as I just spotted a used 2006 Dbl-cab 4x2 Pre-Runner from the U.S. on sale here in Toronto.
1) How do you tell it's a Pre-Runner? It "looks" heavy duty ...
2) How do you tell if the tow-package was installed?

If the guy selling it has gone to the trouble of converting the U.S. registration to Ontario, and it otherwise checks out, I may be able to persuade the wife on a "bargain" 4x2.

The door sticker should have the weight rating for the truck and probably indcates the model...I'll check mine when my wife brings the truck back later today

You may also be able to have Toyota or a dealer look up the VIN (or maybe a CarFax report) and give you the details on the model and whether it had the factory tow package or not.

 

[brulaz]

Thanks MudDog, but that one didn't have a hitch, so no trailer package. Besides the wife is digging in her heels over the 4x4 as she wants to be able to drive it in the snow.

The good news is that there's some pretty reasonably priced used Tacoma 4x4's with the towing package in the Toronto area.

 

[brulaz]

Well, the good news is that we've almost closed a deal on a new Elkmont.

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.

So we're looking at one without the Factory tow package, and installing an aftermarket 7pin wiring harness, quality brake controller and receiver. This should give us 5000# towing capacity. I also want to put on an aftermarket transmission cooler just because we're going to the Rockies. The Factory tow package also adds an oil cooler and beefier alternator and battery to get the tow rating up to 6500#, which hopefully are not necessary for us and the Elkmont?

Also, I've read here (I think ?) that it's always better to get the Factory wiring for trailers. But I'm not sure why.

Are we making a mistake by considering aftermarket products?
Should we hold out for a 6500# Factory tow package?

 

[Wavery]

Well, the good news is that we've almost closed a deal on a new Elkmont.

The bad news is that all those used 4x4 Tacoma's with the Factory tow package are Double cabs and just too long to be easily parked in our Condo parking spot. And used Tacoma 4x4 short cabs with the Factory tow package are rare.

So we're looking at one without the Factory tow package, and installing an aftermarket 7pin wiring harness, quality brake controller and receiver. This should give us 5000# towing capacity. I also want to put on an aftermarket transmission cooler just because we're going to the Rockies. The Factory tow package also adds an oil cooler and beefier alternator and battery to get the tow rating up to 6500#, which hopefully are not necessary for us and the Elkmont?

Also, I've read here (I think ?) that it's always better to get the Factory wiring for trailers. But I'm not sure why.

Are we making a mistake by considering aftermarket products?
Should we hold out for a 6500# Factory tow package?

I think if it were me, I'd find a Toyota Truck Forum and ask that question.

Aftermarket wiring harnesses and oil coolers are fine. However, I don't really think that's the extent of the trailer pkg from Toyota these days.

I may be wrong but it could include beefier suspension parts, brakes, trans clutches, final drive gear ratios and/or other things. You may find better informed people in a Toyota Truck forum.

 

[Shrimpburrito]

I used to tow our 1500 lb Boston Whaler through the Sierras and from Portland, Oregon to the coast with our 4.0L 6-cyl Jeep Cherokee. It was not unusual for the oil filter to blister. Your Elkmont will be more than twice that weight. IMHO, the oil filter adds alot of value.

Installing a 7-wire harness is not a 10-min job. You'll need to run wire from the battery, braking circuits, and signal circuits from under the hood all the way to the bumper. Obviously, you wouldn't need to do that with a factory tow package, and as a result, installing a brake controller would be a breeze.

If you don't have a powerful enough alternator, your TM batteries may not charge at all while underway. In fact, you may not be able to run the fridge, either, without running your TM batteries down.

In addition to all of that, harveyrv mentions the possibility that there may be alot more to the towing package.

You say the short beds are rare.....but they are out there. If you expand your search to the entire U.S., you could pay $400 to fly there (cross country) and check it out, fly home, and have it transported to your door for $1500 (cross country). So it would basically cost you a $2,000 premium to buy out-of-state. You're going to spend a good portion of that in properly equipping a non-towing package vehicle, not to mention all the hassle and cost of installing it, or getting it installed. To me, that's a wash financially, so I would strongly consider expanding your search.

Carmax might be a good place to check. They have lots across the country and will transfer them to a lot close to you for a fee (less than $1000 IIRC). And I want to say they also have a 30-day money back guarantee.

Dave

 

[bfezel]

IMHO it seems that the Tacoma is not going to be enough truck to SAFELY handle the Elkmont. There is a big difference between just getting by with a tow vehicle and having something that gives you the comfort level that all is under control. Given the big investment that you are making on the Elkmont it would seem prudent to go with a full-size TV. Now this advice and $5.00 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Bill

 

[brulaz]

Ok. We'll look harder. I've sent an email to one right now.

Even if we do buy the Elkmont tomorrow, we can't bring it up to our cottage until April because of the snow. So I have the some time.

If the Factory tow route doesn't pan out, I'll head to a Tacoma forum and start bugging them.

But it's my understanding that the big frig in the Elkmont is only two-way. It doesn't use battery power. So the beefed up truck electricals didn't seem too important.