Dumb question about leveling

HA

HappyWDWCampers

Guest
Ok -- so here's my dumb question about rig leveling: right now, the front end of my 3124kb tilts up a wee bit, on account of my current WD shank (hitchbar) not having sufficient drop. I did make sure that when adjusting the chains, etc. that the front end of my Expedition came down to where it was, eliminating any lift caused by the tongue.

How critical is it to get things perfectly level? I ask because it looks like I'd need to buy another hitchbar with more drop if I want things to be picture perfect.

I'd post a pic of it hitched up but everything's popped up right now whilst I wait for the seal kit for my toilet (blasted flange was leaking -- figured I might as well seal everything while I have it apart).

Thanks!
John
 
The ONLY reason for being level is for the refrigerator. Because of the gas they use and the necessary design of the system they will damage the refrigerator when operating out of tolerance level. I think the frig will even operate properly with no damage up to about a half a bubble off. If you are not operating the refrigerator then level is no issue at all that I am aware of.
 
I think the OP is referring to level while towing (hitched to TV with WD bar) versus level when camp is setup.
 
How critical is it to get things perfectly level?

Just my opinion here and i'm sure someone here will disagree :)

It really depends on how much
a wee bit
is. If its fairly close to level, should not be a problem -- i assume nothing is close to dragging anywhere?

Running the Fridge while towing should not be a problem since the trailer will bounce in and out of level as you drive anyway.

Is this with or without being loaded for camping? -- as that may change the level slightly.

Does your rig tow (handle)well with this configuration?

Our trailer is not perfectly level, maybe an inch difference front to rear but is towing well with no noted problems.
 
I'd have to measure it to be sure, but it was a significant enough difference front to back to make me take notice -- conversely, it towed without any issue, the steering felt "right" (i.e. wasn't any lighter than usual, although in this case I would not have expected it to be), and the back was not even remotely dragging. This was basically unloaded, given I was hauling it back (mostly) empty from the fairgrounds/storage...

I did call Reese today to get their opinion on using 5/8" bolts, and they basically said "it would be better if you didn't" -- so... unless I'm willing to tow with it a bit lopsided, I'm looking at a new hitchbar...

Oh -- and as expected, the front axle and trailer axle were well within tolerances, so no concerns about unusual weight distribution...

Thanks,
John
 
Decided to go ahead and order a new hitchbar after poking around the Intarwebs a bit more -- just seemed wise to be safe rather than sorry...

Thanks!
John
 
The refrigerator manual has the specs on that we mean by "level" but the floor would feel pretty steep to you if it was a problem. I also think they said you don't have to worry about it when you're moving, but that could have been a previous RV refrigerator I'm remembering.

There are no mechanical issues in towing out of level except for the rear bumper dragging if the tongue is too high and bottoming out on the tongue when the hitch is set too low. Of course, it's always important to get the WDH settings right, too.
 
There are no mechanical issues in towing out of level except for the rear bumper dragging if the tongue is too high and bottoming out on the tongue when the hitch is set too low. Of course, it's always important to get the WDH settings right, too.

It seems to me that a difference between the trailer being slightly low or slightly high from level while towing is that air flow may be different. This may cause a modest change in fuel consumption.

It is also my undocumented opinion (aka gossip) that a trailer riding low in the front is slightly more stable than a trailer that is riding slightly high.

For a few inches of difference, I doubt that it matters.

I have scraped the front battery tray twice. I have scraped the rear hitch receiver more times than I want to think about. The battery tray scrapes were measurable in inches. The rear hitch receiver scrapes were measurable in feet. In my situation, towing a bit low has a advantage. This part does not matter for most TM owners, because most TM owners probably do not go where I go. If you don''t have 4WD and a high clearance vehicle, then you definitely won't go where I go.
 
Pop, what are the advantages in towing a bit low where you go?
Would you rather raise the rear bumper some vs lowering the battery tray, or what?
Just curious to learn from your "off road " experience.
Thanks.
 
Pop, what are the advantages in towing a bit low where you go?
Would you rather raise the rear bumper some vs lowering the battery tray, or what?
Just curious to learn from your "off road " experience.
Thanks.

There are several reasons why towing slightly low appears to have an advantage:

1. multiple people report that there is a little less wind drag. I can not confirm this. Perhaps an Engineer can.

2. multiple people report that slightly low is a little more stable in adverse conditions than slightly high. I can not confirm this. Perhaps an Engineer can.

3. When crossing a dry creek bed the first thing that happens is the front wheels of my truck drop into the bottom of the creek. This raises the rear bumper of the truck about a foot. That means that the front of the TM raises about a foot. The TM tires are not yet in the creek bed, so the rear of the TM drops, but it drops by less than a foot because the TM axle is set back from center.

As I continue to pull forward the front wheels of the truck begin to climb out of the hole, as the rear of the TM begins to drop over the edge into the hole. This results in the front of the TM being very low. As the battery tray hits the small rocks (softball size) at the bottom of the creek bed the rocks roll around out of the way. If I hang up on a larger rock I can either move the rock or use planks to lift the TM wheel over the top of the rock. I try to tow around these larger rocks but sometimes I can not.

As the truck begins to level out on the other side of the creek bed the tongue of the TM lifts rather high. The rear of the TM is still descending the slope down into the creek bed. This is when the rear hitch receiver begins to dig a trench in the dirt sloping into the creek bed. As long as this trench is not more than about 3 inches deep then the rear plumbing will not scrape the rocks.

If the dirt is not soft enough then the rear hitch receiver does not dig this trench deep enough. This means that the TM wheels are beginning to lift off of the ground.

So now I am in a situation where the TM tongue is about a foot too high, the rear hitch receiver is carrying some of the weight of the rear of the TM and the TM tires are not carrying very much load, because the axle has been unweighted. I am now towing with the TM on 2 points of road contact instead of 3. The weight is on the front hitch and the rear hitch receiver. The TM wheels are outriggers, keeping it stable as it rocks from side to side a bit.

The dirt surface on both sides of the creek bed can best be described by several inches deep talcum powder. The dirt sloping down from this surface into the creek bed is well packed dirt with some rock and some tree roots.

It is prudent to have 4WD when towing any trailer across this creek bed, dry or otherwise. A TM with the wheels not carrying any weight does not roll. You drag it. It is more of a sled.

I have seen 5th wheel trailers on the other side. I did not watch them tow across the creek bed. These 5th wheel trailers have a lot more vertical clearance than a TM does.

The problem when towing across a creek bed, or any other road condition where you drop several feet into a hole and then climb back up to the original height on the other side is the vertical pivoting that occurs at the hitch.

We like this camp sight because there are only two spaces and they are very large. We have had the TM, the ATV trailer, 3 trucks, one passenger car, 3 ATVs, 3 motorcycles, 4 tents in it with room to spare. It is adjacent to a seasonal creek. It is set back far enough from the access road that we do not get any dust.

Recently I have discovered that if I tow with a 2 drop tow ball and cross the creek with a 3 inch drop tow ball that things work out a little better. Using a 3 inch drop tow ball lowers the front of the TM an additional inch. This increases battery tray scraping and reduces scraping by the rear of the TM.

I have modified the front battery tray because I have bent it, but that occurred when crossing over a rise that was in place to divert water across a dirt road.

As a guess, very few people reading this would want to go with me.
 
I'd probably love to go with you, as long as you're driving.


One of my driving rules is that not more than one wheel of my truck is allowed to leave the ground.

I can drive on 3 wheels, but 2 wheels will frequently result in high centering.

In a Jeep, not towing, I have had 4 wheels off the ground, but I don't consider dirt jumping to count.
 
Yes, i'd come along as well as long as you are driving your rig, sounds like fun.
You are a regular explorer!
Thanks.
 
So this weekend I found a nice level parking lot and tweaked things with my new hitchbar til I hit level (and my front bumper was within ~1/8" of where it started), and lo and behold, on a 5 3/8" drop bar I found myself in the last hole! So things dropped roughly around 3 - 4" before I hit a level rig, which seems like a lot to me!

I then hit the CAT scales and discovered a result that was much more to my liking -- ~2880lbs on the front axle, ~3160lbs on the rear axle (low on fuel, nothing else in the back), and ~3560lbs on the trailer axle (mostly loaded, with only about ~150lbs worth of clothing and food left to load) -- all well within spec -- I'm much more comfortable with this!

So - money well spent in my mind! Thanks again for the input!

John
 
So this weekend I found a nice level parking lot and tweaked things with my new hitchbar til I hit level (and my front bumper was within ~1/8" of where it started), and lo and behold, on a 5 3/8" drop bar I found myself in the last hole! So things dropped roughly around 3 - 4" before I hit a level rig, which seems like a lot to me!

I then hit the CAT scales and discovered a result that was much more to my liking -- ~2880lbs on the front axle, ~3160lbs on the rear axle (low on fuel, nothing else in the back), and ~3560lbs on the trailer axle (mostly loaded, with only about ~150lbs worth of clothing and food left to load) -- all well within spec -- I'm much more comfortable with this!

So - money well spent in my mind! Thanks again for the input!

John

How many less pounds are there on the front axle after you're hitched?
 
~100lbs -- it really clarified the fact that it was picking up the back-end a bit -- and given my front axle max is 3275lbs whereas my rear is ~4100, I can certainly better afford to load the truck rear axle than the front.

I do find this interesting - when I was towing with my Sienna, the trailer axle would routinely hit ~3800lbs or more -- the funny thing is between the fact that we don't have ~240lbs of remaining stuff to load AND the fact I've already added one or two things that I did not have loaded last year (ez-up tent and a large outside mat), it makes me wonder why things were so different when both appeared "level."

Eh, I'll have to stop once more at the scales fully loaded and see what I find -- so far though, I'm quite pleased!

Thanks,
John
 
With the Sienna you were probably using a WDH which moved weight back onto the trailer axle?

With the Expedition are you still using a WDH? Maybe not, so less weight on trailer axle.
 
Yep, still using a WDH (same one from my Sienna) -- who knows -- maybe the Sienna wasn't quite as level as I thought, although it certainly looked level -- there was a bit more variability, given I had air bags firmly inflated to ward off sagging, coupled with the nagging suspicion that I was exceeding my tongue capacity...

Looking back at old scale records for the Sienna, I was transferring about 220lbs forward to my front axle (which brought me within 60-80lbs of the limit!), 180lbs to the rear axle, and the difference to the trailer axle.

Thanks,
John
 
...
I do find this interesting - when I was towing with my Sienna, the trailer axle would routinely hit ~3800lbs or more -- the funny thing is between the fact that we don't have ~240lbs of remaining stuff to load AND the fact I've already added one or two things that I did not have loaded last year (ez-up tent and a large outside mat), it makes me wonder why things were so different when both appeared "level."

100 pounds difference on your front axle when hitched is excellent.

The Sienna has much softer springs, allowing more up and down travel on bumps, and it starts out a lot lower in the first place. Therefore, I'd expect ground clearance to be a bigger problem. Also, we always need finer adjustments as we approach limits, treasuring all the carrying capacity available. Most important, of course, the 3124 is a whole lot of trailer for a Sienna and I think most of us would find the combo to be limiting. Thanks for posting your adventures.
 
It is amazing the difference between the Expy and the Sienna -- without the airbags (and even some with them), the Sienna used to porpoise all over the place. The truck? Not a bit.

And that's fine - there's a reason I kept my van and bought an 8 year old SUV - my van does it's job very well (people hauler), it's reliable, and I'm loathe to part with it -- except for towing. :)

Thanks,
John
 

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