Cheaper parts to reduce production cost?

[oldnretired]

Hi. New 2008 2619 owner, was originally bought from Car Show, still has the sticker on it.

I hope Trailmanor & Co will continue to do well. Beautiful product. We'd been looking at hardside expandables to replace the Kodiak 172E hybrid. Of course there's only two that I could find - Trailmanor and HiLo.

It's the high initial cost I suppose that limits their new sales and they have a stigma like they're a canvas-side popup.

Dare I say they need to 'cheapen' the product. Put cheaper cabinetry into it for one thing, and instead of the fiberglass underbelly leave the frame exposed but use sprayfoam insulation in there and use a plastic cover over the sprayfoam like the Kodiak hybrids.

It cheapens the product quality, but it cheapens the cost out the door to the buyer.

Trailmanor doesn't need the highest quality interiors, their product is a unique niche that appeals to many buyers, but they have to get the initial cost down.

By the way, we love this 2619, been wanting one but they're dang hard to find locally.

 

[Kidkraz]

FlipFlop, I respectfully disagree with parts of your comment. I too have a 2619 and love it.
Using cheap products inside and out is not the solution. The average person doesn't want to spend a lot of money, but when I spend I want a quality product that will last. I agree the TM, is not cheap, but I know it will last many, many years with proper maintenance.

 

[oldnretired]

FlipFlop, I respectfully disagree with parts of your comment. I too have a 2619 and love it.
Using cheap products inside and out is not the solution. The average person doesn't want to spend a lot of money, but when I spend I want a quality product that will last. I agree the TM, is not cheap, but I know it will last many, many years with proper maintenance.

I'm just thinking if Trailmanor wants to move their product the initial cost for entry level should be around $17,000. They'd move them fast, but they have to get the production cost down to do so.

That means 'cheapen' the build. They don't need maple cabinetry, they can go veneer like everybody else does. Those kind of cost-cutting things.

Trailmanor's selling point is it's a unique hardbody expandable, they have to attract buyers with a cheap price entry level. Otherwise they'll go the way of Hi-Lo.

 

[Icon-KEY]

That means 'cheapen' the build. They don't need maple cabinetry, they can go veneer like everybody else does. Those kind of cost-cutting things.

Trailmanor's selling point is it's a unique hardbody expandable, they have to attract buyers with a cheap price entry level. Otherwise they'll go the way of Hi-Lo.

Let's be candid, it's a niche vehicle.

Going cheap with veneer in a vehicle like a TM with all it's inherent flex would be a huge mistake. Finger jointed laminate would look like the inside of an Austin, TX roadhouse after one 30 mile tow. Peanuts on the floor, and more creaks and rattles than a hail damaged Chevrolet Vega.

Hi-Lo's problem (one of many) was the weight of the escalating system, which required a higher towing capacity vehicle with the ONLY advantage being the lower/smaller sail area while towing. The Hi-Lo had a small(ish) floor plan for the relative weight.

Value and quality is more important to a TM owner than low acquisition cost.

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

flipflop, I read your post about half an hour after you wrote it, and decided to not comment, as I knew others would. But,

The floor of the TM is 3" of frame and styrofoam sandwiched together. The bottom layer is aluminum, not fiberglass. It would make no sense to just blow insulation under a thin wood floor sitting on top of the chassis.

The cabinets (at least in my 2012 and 2014 model-years) have a thin plastic veneer on them. They need to be light. I have seen some models with all-wood cabinets, and I would rather have them. I don't know how screws fare in the lightweight wood, but I don't want to go any cheaper with the cabinets and have more screws pulling out.

The TM engineers tried to keep the trailers as light as possible, so they could be towed with smaller vehicles (properly equipped). Going cheaper may make them heavier, which would not be good.

I disagree about making them cheaper to sell more units. If the factory can overcome its various problems, they could produce about 1,500 per year, and sell every one (they have done it in the past). With 18,000 travel trailers sold each month, TMs are a drop in the bucket. And, as mecicon says, it is a niche product. Not everyone likes the design and mechanics of a TM.

Airstreams are not cheap, and they are all over the place. Not everyone can afford a particular product. That does not mean that the manufacturer of the product should cheapen it, just so more people can purchase it. If I want something I cannot afford, I can either get another job, get an education that will allow me to look for a better job, or accept that I am not financially suited for that product. It's not about the manufacturer cheapening their product so I can afford it.

I would rather see a few improvements in quality and longevity, even if it adds $500 to the price. Certainly don't want a lower-quality TrailManor!

 

[Padgett]

+1. People willing to pay 30-40K$ for a railer want quality and to be more than a pop-up.

 

[oldnretired]

Eh, just a thought - apparently not a good one!

 

[fairweatherfisherman]

It is an interesting thought though. There are obviously costs that could be squeezed out of production, or time, if some steps could be done more efficiently. I'm old enough now that some things I'm buying are going to be the last ones I ever buy. As such, I'd prefer their quality to be pretty high.

 

[Lesherp]

It has been my experience that cheap is expensive unless you are buying something for limited use.

 

[tentcamper]

Most of the parts are standard rv parts.

But the body and cabinets are made by a laminating process that shaves off many hundreds of pounds.

 

[BrucePerens]

There are lots of companies that make foam composite panels these days, since they are used for stationary building construction. I've been thinking about an aluminum shell frame on the outside of the RV with panels that are bolted in and caulked. It would be a great deal easier to repair and perhaps to construct. It could have hard points where appropriate, for accessories on the roof and walls.

Also, kill the Krystal Kote. It doesn't last once it gets enough ultraviolet, it's impossible to touch up, and it makes the surface of the Trailmanor a pain to clean because it's chemically sensitive and you're not supposed to wax it or use any number of conventional cleaning materials. I cleaned my roof with tide and saw an entire layer of the stuff slough off, probably due to ultraviolet. Just use modern white automobile paint with no clear coat so that it's a cinch to touch up.

 

[Padgett]

Think the first thing I would do is to visit the other RV plants and take a tour just to see what the standard practices are.

Standardize on just king bed models (one rear module), two front modules (with/without slide). And three center modules (25, 29, 31 ft). Standardise on a 5K axle clocked to avoid need for a lift kit.

Develop a power opening option. Update the electronics. Add a "dry camping" package. Increase solar from 80 to 200W.

 

[klpauba]

<snip>
Just use modern white automobile paint with no clear coat so that it's a cinch to touch up.

Doesn't the automotive clear coat protect the base/color coat from UV? I think you can easily touch up by painting over the clear coat with the base color and then applying a few coats of clear.

I agree with you on the existing coating ... my first impulse was to clean with the same soaps and waxes I use for my car.

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

Padgett, the problem with discontinuing the 2720 is that, with the swing hitch, it fits in more garages than the 2922 will. That is why the 2720 is the most-popular model. Of course, those production numbers are from when they were producing trailers, and the 2922 had just come out.

Maybe the 2922 would be more popular, if anything were being made. But, I imagine the 2720 will still be the largest number of models sold, for the garage reason.

 

[jquarles]

This has been a great thread to follow for sure. I am not sure how many parts could be cheapened. Most of the "bolt on" parts are standard RV stuff like Suburban heaters, thermostats and fridges. Most of the "hand built" parts are what make TM's special, light and unlike the other TTs out there. As someone said earlier, it's a niche market.

I work in aerospace and we are in the niche market business of custom products. One thing we have to strive for is efficiencies in production. A less efficient assembly line and easily double your labor costs. That may be a better place to look. I have seen dramatic cost savings in some plants by utilizing Lean, Kaizen, Six Sigma and Just-In-Time principles. Doesn't work everywhere, but it can sometimes really help. I haven't been to this plant, but I did take a tour of my boat sponsors manufacturing plant and was really shocked at how inefficient it was.

Anyway, those were just a few of my humble thoughts off the top of my head

 

[BrucePerens]

Doesn't the automotive clear coat protect the base/color coat from UV?

Urethanes and polyurethane clearcoat are in general used in conjunction with metallic finishes, where the look of the paint is enhanced by the presence of fine metallic grains which reflect sparkles of light. Clearcoat makes metallic paint more robust in several ways, besides protecting it the clear coat doesn't show scratches as badly as the metallic paint alone.

If you are not using a metallic finish, it makes more sense for the ultraviolet resistance to be in the layer of white paint alone, which contains lots of titanium dioxide pigment to reflect that ultraviolet away.

Conventional automobile clearcoat is damaged by abrasive cleaning. In general we can use rubbing and polishing compound on plain white paint.