Can you add a swing hitch later?

[Shrimpburrito]

markandanne - do you happen to have a picture of the underside of your tongue showing how that metal mesh is welded to the tongue? I am going to do something like yours.....

Thanks,
Dave

 

[markandanne]

Hi Dave,

I can probably take some pictures this weekend - the tongue is sitting in the garage but I need better light for photos. The only two comments I can think of are that if you look at the 2nd or 4th photos you will notice that there is a large C beam that boxes off the tongue that mates with the smaller C beam welded onto the main trailer frame. The expanded steel extends to this C beam and I presume it is welded to it too (I'll double check this).

Also, you will notice an angle bracket in the photos that is attached to the underside of the expanded steel maybe a foot inside the C beam. I can't recall how it's attached but I'll check this weekend. I'm sure the angle bracket is for support so that the middle of the tray doesn't sag.

Anyway, I'll let you know more this weekend and I'll try to take some useful photos.

Mark

 

[lnussbau]

Here are pictures of the swing hitch installed on my 2720SL by The Car Show. Note the two bolts holding the flat face plates together.

 

[markandanne]

Those are good pictures showing the construction of the hinge. Mine is set up the same way, including hinge pins on both ends and dual bolts in the middle of the beams. My upright tanks were moved onto the front swing hitch so that the swing hitch is further back, with the expanded steel welded to the bottom. But otherwise they look the same.

I'll try to take some pictures tomorrow or Sunday and post them.

 

[Bill]

OK, I'm slowly getting in sync here. It looks like The Car Show does two different kinds of swing hitches. Mark and Anne have a Car Show mod on their 2720. The new cross-beam in their photo is much farther back on the frame than on the swing hitch that comes from the TM factory. The result is that with the hitch removed, the TM is shortened by about 3 feet or even more, rather 2 feet as in the factory swing hitch.

Larry Nussbaum has a Car Show swing hitch on his 2720SL. In this mod, the new cross member is forwards of the horizontal propane tanks. Aside from the addition of the two bolts, it looks very similar to the swing hitch provided by the factory. With the hitch swung or removed, the TM will be about 2 feet shorter than an unmodified TM.

My comment above - "The Car Show mod would not work on a 2720SL" - was referring to the first mod. I did not recognize that The Car Show performed two types of mods.

So if you are thinking about a swing-hitch retrofit and you don't have an SL model, it appears you have two choices.

Bill

 

[markandanne]

CS Swing Hitch Mesh Photos

Hi Dave,

We took some pictures over the weekend, and I just got to uploading them. Here are a couple of (compressed) pictures which hopefully give you some ideas. Basically, the CS cut a triangular piece of expanded steel to fit the space, and welded it onto the swing hitch from below on the sides and from the side to the rear C beam. This appears to be spot welded about every 2 inches or so, maybe every other or 2 out of every 3 places the steel crossed the sides, and on every intersection of the rear to the C beam. The 6 inches or so of the front edge is unsupported. The center is supported with a welded on 1.5" angle bracket, and they used a short strip of steel the same thickness as the expanded steel as a spacer on the ends. Hopefully these pictures illustrate this.

My uncompressed photos are 1.9M each, but I may be able to strike a compromise if you want to see something larger (or I can email you the originals).

Let me know if there's anything else you want to see.

 

[Shrimpburrito]

Thanks for posting the pics, Mark. Very helpful. I was going to have a welder /sheet metal guy do this, but he wants about $250 for parts and labor. About $40 of that is for extra material I don't need but he has to buy because his wholesaler won't sell him a half sheet of expanded metal. Granted, I know it would be a precision job, but since this is something that doesn't require such precision, I may just buy a piece of expanded metal for about $40 and somehow fasten it myself.

Dave

 

[AZgang]

How did the bigger hitch changes work out?

I know this is an old thread, but how did this change to the tongue last?

Any issues with cracking or failures?

Was there a great change in the overall tongue weight by moving the tanks forward?

Thanks for helping out a newbie.

 

[Wavery]

I know this is an old thread, but how did this change to the tongue last?

Any issues with cracking or failures?

Was there a great change in the overall tongue weight by moving the tanks forward?

Thanks for helping out a newbie.

If you use a certified welder to build the swing-away hitch, there is no reason for the welds to have issues.

Moving the tanks forward would not change the tongue weight measurably. Maybe a pound or two.

Here are some pics of the individual pieces that need to be cut and welded. It isn't really as complicated as it appears.

 

[AZgang]

One more question

Could I use a Weight Distribution Hitch with this setup?

If so would I want to connect the chains before the swing away joint or after?

Thanks again.

 

[AZgang]

Looks good the swing hitch

How much did you lose from the length by covering to the swing away tongue?

I’m trying to get 3124 into a 21’ garage.

Thanks again.

 

[Wavery]

Could I use a Weight Distribution Hitch with this setup?

If so would I want to connect the chains before the swing away joint or after?

Thanks again.

Many owners use a WDH with the swing-away hitch.

Chain location is a personal preference. For ultimate protection, you would attach the chains to the main frame. This would protest you from a run-away trailer in the event that the swing-away hitch happened to fail completely and fall off. Chances of that happening to a properly welded tongue would be close to zero.

The main reason for using safety chains is to protect from trailer hitch failure which is far more common. Most common is forgetting to latch the coupler on the ball, 2nd the ball coming loose from the hitch, 3rd the welds on the trailer hitch (on the TV) failing.

For best security, be sure to attach safety chains to the tow vehicle frame and not the trailer hitch. I learned that the hard way a few years back. This was a 7K# rated hitch on my class A motorhome towing a 4K# cargo trailer.

 

[AZgang]

Wow that would test your nerve

That looks like a catastrophic failure of the TV hitch mount weld. I hope you weren’t going at highway speeds when that happened.

I have my safety chains connected separately to my frame. (Different attachment point)

So it’s best to connect the WDH torsion chains or bars to the main frame of the Trailmanor, rather than the swing away.

Thanks

 

[Wavery]

Thankfully I was just pulling away from a Stop sign when it happened. I was about 4 blocks from home so I just walked home and grabbed my truck.

 

[Bill]

I'm a little concerned about a couple things I am seeing here. Take this for what it is worth to you.

1. Owners should know that once the swing hitch is unlatched, it is not capable of supporting any weight. Years ago, when TMs were being built in Tennessee, we had a rash of reports of frame cracking in the hitch area. I had some long discussions with the TM engineers, and it turned out that many of the affected users were either a) opening the swing hitch, and then cranking down the tongue jack to level the trailer, or b) opening the swing hitch and then cranking down the tongue jack with the dolly wheel attached, and moving the trailer by rolling it on the dolly. Either of these actions puts an enormous twisting force on the hitch structure, which it was not designed to withstand, and a common result was broken welds. The proper way, of course, is to do whatever heavy-weight activity is needed while the swing hitch is closed and latched, then crank down the stabilizers to support its weight and prevent movement. Then, open the hitch.

2. Re attaching safety chains. Each state has its own requirements for safety chains, including where to attach them to the trailer. TM, of course, has to meet the requirements of any state where they will sell a TM, so basically they meet the requirements of all states. And as I recall, one of those requirements is that the safety chains must be solidly attached to the frame of the trailer, behind any movable part. So attachment to the swing part of the hitch is not allowed. When I was researching the issue years ago, I'm sure that I saw this requirement in some overall federal code, but I can't find the reference now. So again, take it for what it is worth to you. Has anyone bought a new TM from the factory or one of its dealers, with safety chains attached to the swing part of the hitch? If so, can we have a photo?
. . . Safety chains must be strong enough to support the entire weight of the trailer, even though they won't be used to actually lift the trailer off the ground.

Bill

 

[Shane826]

Bill- Where are the safety cables attached on your new TM?

 

[Wavery]

2. Re: attaching safety chains. Each state has its own requirements for safety chains, including where to attach them to the trailer. TM, of course, has to meet the requirements of any state where they will sell a TM, so basically they meet the requirements of all states. And as I recall, one of those requirements is that the safety chains must be solidly attached to the frame of the trailer, behind any movable part. So attachment to the swing part of the hitch is not allowed. When I was researching the issue years ago, I'm sure that I saw this requirement in some overall federal code, but I can't find the reference now. So again, take it for what it is worth to you. Has anyone bought a new TM from the factory or one of its dealers, with safety chains attached to the swing part of the hitch? If so, can we have a photo?
. . . Safety chains must be strong enough to support the entire weight of the trailer, even though they won't be used to actually lift the trailer off the ground.

Bill

The reason that the safety chains must be strong enough to support the entire trailer is because it is not uncommon for a trailer to go off of an embankment or bridge if the entire rig spins out. This could happen on ice or dry roads if the trailer sway gets out of control.

 

[Bill]

Bill- Where are the safety cables attached on your new TM?

They are bolted to the frame members aft of the swing hitch. As I recall, welding is also an acceptable attachment method. I have the curly-cable version of safety chains, which I find really unhandy to use. I actually have a pair of chains on a shelf in the garage, but I never remember to install them until I am hooking up the TM and have no time.

Bill

 

[AZgang]

Safety cable vs chain

I believe the reason for the curly cable is to reduce the likely hood of chain sparks in the National Forest.

That doesn’t make them any easier to live with.