And now for something really off topic...

[tentcamper]

What ever did we do, before search-engines??? Do you remember having to go to a library to do research??

 

[ArkyDoodle]

What's a library?

 

[tentcamper]

library's: I think they are trying to reinvent themselves as a meeting place, meeting rooms, movie usage, activities for kids. They are trying to fine a reason to keep getting tax dollars.

When I dont want to use a search engine and have extra time. I still like to go to a library there is something nice about searching and hunting for you information. I think I like to test of my sills. There is nothen like sitting and reading at the library.

But I don't think the younger libertarians are much help in doing deep searches. They want to go online and use search engines. Pulse library's don't seem to have as much material.

 

[Popmom]

We use the library still. I love our library. Recently, I took my 12 year old, and we used the good ole Dewey Decimal to find books on veggie gardening.

I don’t really get the idea of programming before learning algebra. I mean... I can see how it might be a help to some, but it’s definitely not a requirement. Algebra has been taught in schools in the U.S. since the 1800’s—sans computers or programming.

I agree that current standards are requiring some higher level abstract thinking in math that is not age appropriate.

I am a former public school elementary teacher and currently home-schooling teacher. The longer I home-school the more certain I am that there is no “one size fits all” approach to teaching ANY student any subject.

My philosophy in teaching my kids over the years has ranged from loosely classical to unschooling. What works for one may not work for another. Two of mine are now thriving in their university environment. I’ve got two more to go. The experiment continues...

 

[HoMiPa]

I work as an academic assistant for a engineering grad program - and the most simple, basic things stump many of the students. Like the need to dial 1, then the area code, when using a land line. They have grown up not even using a land line, and the whole concept throws them for a loop.

 

[Bill]

OK, Holly, here's a stumper for you. I've been looking for an answer for years.

Sometimes I dial 1, then the area code, then the number, and it goes into intercept. A recorded message says "It is not necessary to dial 1 for this number. Please hang up and dial again."

Other times, I skip the "1", and dial just the area code and the number. A recording comes on saying "You must dial a 1 for this number. Please hang up and dial again."

My question isn't so much why a "1" is or isn't necessary. Rather, my question is why I must hang up and redial in either case. The phone system obviously knows what number I'm calling, and knows whether a "1" is needed or not needed. So why doesn't it simply insert or delete the needed "1" automatically?

This is the part that throws me for a loop - and yes, I was an engineering grad student in an earlier life.

Bill

 

[HoMiPa]

My question isn't so much why a "1" is or isn't necessary. Rather, my question is why I must hang up and redial in either case. The phone system obviously knows what number I'm calling, and knows whether a "1" is needed or not needed. So why doesn't it simply insert or delete the needed "1" automatically?

Ha ha - well, that has me stumped as well - I've never received either recording. But then, I'm still trying to figure out why I have to "Press 1" for English....

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

At least here in B C Canada, the 1 is only used if the number is long distance. Cell phones and landlines are the same in this respect. a few years ago, we were running out of phone numbers so we went to requiring the full 10 digit number for both local and long distance.
What I cannot figure out in Canada is when the cell phone company charges you long distance or not. I have only the most basic plan, no data, no nationwide, and not even texting. If I travel to another city in my province, what is long distance? It seems to be long distance no matter who or where I'm calling.

 

[BrucePerens]

Sometimes I dial 1, then the area code, then the number, and it goes into intercept. A recorded message says "It is not necessary to dial 1 for this number. Please hang up and dial again."

Other times, I skip the "1", and dial just the area code and the number. A recording comes on saying "You must dial a 1 for this number. Please hang up and dial again."

Oh, Bill. And I thought you knew about telephones

The North American Numbering Plan is the standard that applies to our area, and NANP complies with Recommendation e.164 of the International Telecommunications Union, which is a department of the United Nations.

Originally, area codes all had "0" or "1" as the second digit, which allowed telephone systems to distinguish them from the prefixes of local numbers. So, "212" was an area code, and no local phone numbers took the form "212-XXXX". Simple patterns like this worked with the step-by-step telephone switching equipment before central offices had CPUs. Demand for telephone numbers increased so that the prefixes of local numbers and area codes had to overlap if we were to continue to use 10 digits for the U.S., Canada, their possessions and the Caribbean; thus there can be numbers of the format "212-XXX-XXXX" and "XXX-212-XXXX".

The system could allow you to dial a 10-digit number without the 1 if it recognized that there was no conflicting local prefix, but while that might work today it is unlikely to work tomorrow, as there might be overlap in the future as the demand for numbers increases. Thus, the system disallows this so that you will not memorize numbers that will not be dialable tomorrow, or program them into equipment.

In contrast, the requirement that you not dial "1" and an area code in front of a local number is an implementation issue of the local central office, possibly related to their desire not to route through a long-distance provider. In many areas you must dial the area code before a local number, and it is probable that this will eventually be the same everywhere.

The "#" button is interpreted as a carriage return by most landline telephone systems, and usually eliminates delays where the system would otherwise wait for you to dial another digit. This is especially useful when dialing international numbers, where the local system may only determine when you're finished dialing by a long wait.

If "#" was always required, the system would know when you had finished dialing, as it knows when you press "send" or its modern equivalent on a cell phone. Thus, cell phone systems know the length of the number before dialing, and a "1" before a 10-digit number is not necessary. Often the phone itself inserts the local area code before a 7-digit number.

The future direction will probably incorporate the domain name system as SIP does today, and there will be a "send" button to accommodate variable-length numbers.

 

[Bill]

Oh, Bill. And I thought you knew about telephones

Bruce -

That's all interesting stuff. I knew most of it, though not all, I admit. But you've answered the wrong question, namely - Why is a "1" sometimes needed and sometimes not needed? I understand that part, including the valid thought that the need might change in the future.

But you've ignored the question I did ask. Specifically -

If I dial a number without inserting a "1" at the front, and the system knows that I should have inserted a "1", why does it not simply insert the "1" for me, so I don't have to redial? And of course, the reverse. If I dialed a "1" before a number, and the system knows that I didn't need the "1", why doesn't it simply delete the "1", instead of making me redial?

The software that runs all telephone operations today could handle this easily. There's got to be a reason why it doesn't, but I've never been able to determine what that reason is.

Bill

 

[BrucePerens]

It could only insert the "1" now because no local number prefix exists with the same digits as the area code you are dialing. Tomorrow, a local number prefix with the same digits may exist. So, the system doesn't want to habituate you to dialing a number in a way that will go someplace other than you intend tomorrow.

 

[Bill]

It could only insert the "1" now because no local number prefix exists with the same digits as the area code you are dialing.

So why doesn't it do it now?

Tomorrow, a local number prefix with the same digits may exist.

So if an ambiguity develops tomorrow, and it doesn't know what I intend when I dial, it could inform me of that ambiguity. But today, asking me to redial using a "1" when no ambiguity exists, is silly.

The idea that it wants me to remember which numbers (of the 100 numbers I've memorized) need a "1", and which ones do not, seems a bit thin - especially if, as you say, the need for a "1" will change in the future, requiring me to change my memorized list.

Bill

 

[Popmom]

lol Were we not talking about school? I'm confused.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

Actually we were talking about slide rules which reminds me about how I proved my point to my Chemistry 11 students yesterday. I was using a Pickett N-300 (a tiny 6" model) while teaching. A student commented from the back corner " this is the 21st century, they have calculators now." Well, he got his answer but didn't use his brain to notice he'd multiplied instead of divided. I took a few seconds longer but had the right answer.

The very point I was trying to make was that you had to use your brain to make sure your answer was in the right magnitude. The stindent in the back made my point for me.

 

[Bill]

lol Were we not talking about school? I'm confused.

You're right, Mom. I apologize for taking us way off topic, into an area not even vaguely TM-related.

Bill

 

[HoMiPa]

You're right, Mom. I apologize for taking us way off topic, into an area not even vaguely TM-related.

Bill

Well, it IS after all, a thread called "And now for something really off topic", in a subtopic of "Off Topic" I actually like how off topic topics segway from one thing to another, to another. Sort of how my brain works anyway..... LOL

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

And now to take a hard right with the topic again,

Because the dialer in a cellphone is a computer program, I assume that the program may insert the "1" when necessary. A landline phone may not have that ability. Either this, or some disgruntled telephone operator at will changes the "1" rules on us just to make our lives as miserable as theirs.

Much the same way the programmers at Samsung messed up the handwriting recognition on my Samsung Note.

 

[Larryjb-HILO]

Ha ha - well, that has me stumped as well - I've never received either recording. But then, I'm still trying to figure out why I have to "Press 1" for English....

Because in Canada you get french instead. (Okay, not really, but at least we have an "official" reason because we have 2 official languages. I believe your Spanish is an unofficial 2nd language.

 

[Shane826]

Larry-
My cell phone (Sprint) makes me hang up and redial with 1 if I’m off Network, roaming on another provider’s network, which is quite often. Because Sprint SUCKS.

 

[Bill]

Well, it IS after all, a thread called "And now for something really off topic", in a subtopic of "Off Topic" I actually like how off topic topics segway from one thing to another, to another. Sort of how my brain works anyway..... LOL

OK, Holly, do you remember this? Back in the old days, the ability to direct dial a long distance call was a new and magical thing. Any direct dial long distance call had to be preceded with either a "1" or a "0". Both of these signified that you were dialing a long distance call. Beyond that, a "1" signified that the call was station-to-station, meaning that as soon as someone at the other end picked up, you started paying. A "0" signified that the call was person-to-person, so an operator would come on, ask your name, then ask the name of the person you wanted to speak to. When someone at the other end answered, the operator would say "I have a person-to-person call from Jane Jones for Jimmy Johnson. Is Jimmy Johnson available?" If the answer was "No, he is not here", then the operator would drop the call. If the answer was "Yes, I am Jimmy Johnson", then the operator would complete the connection, start the timer, and get off the line.

Needless to say, a person-to-person call was a lot more expensive than a station-to-station call. This system was easy to abuse, and didn't last long.

Bill