About to check out two 2619's

[woodlandcottage]

One is an hour away at an RV dealer, with cosmetic hail damage, 2009 priced $15K and one is at a local TM dealer, 2005 good shape inside and out with a tentative price of about $13K(this will depend on several factors once the TM dealership gets a good look at all the systems).
A quick look-up on NADA values says that the 2009 is priced only a couple thousand above average retail, which is consistent with our state. I've been watching prices for almost a year now. But the dealership knows next to nothing about the unit or TM in general. I know a fair amount but things like age of the tires and salvage/standard titling were things the dealer couldn't tell me. We plan to go up to see that one on Saturday and hopefully he will have dug up that info.
The NADA value for the 2005 is only about $6500. I do know that this dealership is very well known for including everything in the price to get the TM operating like new. Their reputation is stellar both before and after a sale. But at almost twice the average retail? The dealer wants me to put down a refundable deposit for right of first refusal. I won't get a chance to look at it for two weeks. But I have a feeling that even if I love it and think the condition is fantastic, I wouldn't go higher than $9K on a 2005. Am I being stingy? I want to be fair and pay for the services they would provide but it's hard for me to guess what those will be and how much they are worth.
At this point we have been searching every week, 3 models that would work for our family, for 6 months. We search all the major online RV sellers, all our regional Craiglist ads, and all our semi-local RV dealership websites. Most of the ones I see posted online are sold before I get a chance to see them. The 5 or so we've seen privately were in poor shape or had iffy modifications. The ones on the lot are priced way over NADA. Our search radius is one day's drive(about 400 miles)so it would be feasible to pick up on a three day weekend. We asked the TM dealership to call us whenever they had one of our desired models in our price range. We finally got a call. :/
My husband just want to throw caution to the wind and just buy one, then repent over the expense at leisure. I manage our finances and am the one who has done all the research so I'm not too keen on that idea. It seems to me, the best option between these two is to buy the 2009 and fix anything that needs fixing. We could spend several thousand bucks on the repairs and come out way ahead of the older model. The hail damage was probably going to happen anyway since most of the places we would camp get such storms often. There are no garages when you are out camping.
What would you be thinking about the prices of these two, before you even went to look at them? How much can I reasonably bid below asking?

 

[rvcycleguy]

Looks like you've got a good handle of the situation. Your right, that 2005 model is priced out of line. I wouldn't care if they served me champagne and caviar for that price.... I'm not overpaying like that. Have you seen photos of the 2009 unit? As far as hail damage? I to realize that it may happen somewhere in its life but I hate to start out with that type of cosmetic issues. I also realize the roof issue only shows when it's stored down. And for me, the title would need to clear meaning not salvage. I would not be comfortable with an insurance loss vehicle. Dealer would need to demonstrate all mechanical, electrical, components in person. Run the heater, AC, water pump, refrigerator on all 3 phases, interior condition used but in very good condition, no rips, tears, stains, flooring does not have any weak or soft subfloor, and absolutely no water leaks....

RV

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

Hmmm. I looked at a TM that had been totaled by the insurance company, due to hail. If I had been in the market for that size, I would have no problem purchasing the unit with the damage, as it was really not "bad", in my mind. The aspect of a salvage title, though, would add a different dimension.

I have not dealt with a salvage title, so my comments are not based on experience. But, seems to me that a salvage title would warrant maybe half of the price of a unit in good condition, even if it is only hail damage. I would call my insurance agent, and ask about insuring it, with a salvage title. If it was totaled, again, what would I get from the insurance company? If they say $8,000, I would not pay $15,000.

Negotiate, after talking to your insurance agent. That, to me, would be a good indicator of what I should be offering. Don't have a clue how much the dealership paid the old insurance company, but my guess is that it was not within $2,000 of current asking price.

Again, I have no experience with a salvage title, so my comments are just my personal take on the situation.

Good luck!

 

[moneeleann]

I think that NADA values are kind of useless when it comes to Trailmanor. If a unit has been well kept, you're not going to see prices below 5000, even for a 2000 unit.

With that said, I paid 6500 for my 2005 3023. I got it at that price because of roof damage and a leaking roof, and torsion bar problems. Not hail damage. I spent a lot of time, effort, and money fixing that roof. If I sold it now, with everything repaired, I would expect to get 9-10K out of it.

I do think the dealer may be overcharging for the 2005, but then, it's a dealer, they are making a profit, and like you said, no clue what they're doing to it. 9000, like you said, wouldn't be unreasonable. The 2009 actually seems to be at a fairly decent price. Similar to many I've seen here. I think Trailmanor holds its worth more than the NADA guides say, in my opinion.

 

[dascribner]

Paid 10,500 for a 2005 2619 in excellent condition in 2011. Have had no problems with it.

 

[moaboy]

I would focus on the 2009 assuming the damage is only cosmetic. And I would suggest you offer less than what either one is asking. Remember they do this for a living, so the dealers will take care of themselves...
Lastly, spend time with whatever TM you are looking at so you have a good feel for its condition and you get a sense of what you are paying for.
Good luck and hats off for your perseverance!

 

[woodlandcottage]

Thanks so much everyone for the responses! It has been very helpful getting owner feedback on the prices and my other rambling thoughts. I didn't think I was completely out of line with my impressions.
I will be calling the insurance company today(why didn't I think of that?) and will let you know how it goes after our walk-through of the 2009 tomorrow.

 

[woodlandcottage]

Well, the 2009 was a disappointment. The overall condition was okay. The hail damage was just cosmetic and the title was not salvage. But the previous owners installed an aftermarket rooftop AC. It was off-white and the bolts used around the opening were wonky. There was also way too much recaulking done in the interior so there were obviously some leak problems in the past. And it had a rear hitch receiver which is a no-no for us. We don't trust what another person loaded on the back and potentially did to the frame. The dealer offered to come down to $12K on it but we decided to pass. It was tempting to buy it and fix the issues but the risk of it was too much for us at that price point. *sigh*

 

[moaboy]

Gotta go with what u r comfortable with. I'm confident it will work out in time.
Keep us posted...

 

[woodlandcottage]

Well, we bought the second TM. I don't know if I'm happy or annoyed or relieved or what. The unit had had only one owner, a retired couple and I do not exaggerate when I say it was like new inside and out. It had always been stored in the garage too. And it had some options I hadn't included in my previous NADA calculation.
Before we went to see it I pulled a bunch of listed 2619's from Craigslist and other sources with their NADA values to see what the average asking price was as compared to the values. 1.35% of NADA average seems to be the average asking price. They were asking 1.85% for this unit. Since all the other units are in other states, we also had to factor in our cost of lost work time and travel to buy elsewhere than close to home. Even with figuring in those extras over high retail NADA, the dealership turned down my highest offer. Luckily or unluckily my husband overrode me, went up again and they accepted.
But I did think of something that made me feel a little better. There is a huge underground market for TM's in the sense that most exceptional units are sold before they are even listed, like this one was with us. If all I have for value data is NADA and asking prices, it is a very small part of the picture. The demand out here is very high(Colorado Springs area). We've been shopping seriously for half a year and the ones prices under $15K usually go before I even get a chance to look at them. And who knows about the ones that never make it to the listing stage. And every unit we'd seen at other dealerships or from private sellers were listed at 1.1-1.5% of NADA and had a serious issue or two that would need correction. Which means $$. At least with this one we paid more but everything is pristine and ready to go.
I just wish the pricing and values of this stuff were more transparent so I could make sense of the math of it. :smilies3:

 

[tentcamper]

Congratulations on the new TM. Enjoy your camping.

Yes nada or blue book is a funny thing. Since nada is giving you national numbers, it does reflect the value in your state. What we have seen when looking at TM's. Out west the TM demand a higher price then east.

Also, if you have an exceptional condition camper, it will sell for a much higher price. I have even head of dealers giving very good prices for exceptional campers.

I follow a simple rule, never look back after you buy something. You will always second guess yourself and it always seems you will find a better deal.

 

[woodlandcottage]

Thanks Art&Joyce. You're right. My husband says the same thing. I have some issues with money due to growing up fairly poor. My husband is really supportive even though he knows how anxious buying anything make me. He joked that at least at this point we have a house and good running cars and now with the camper it will be many years before we have to shop for or make a big purchase again. That does make me feel a little better!

 

[moaboy]

NADA, Kelley Blue Book, Edmunds are all reflective of a number of variables. Sounds like you did your homework and so understood the market there for TM's. The dealership knew that it was a good TM and felt comfortable turning down your offer. So I don't think you over paid for that unit at that location at that time.
Have fun adopting it to your tastes and what works for you.
Enjoy!

 

[LoveToCamp-TMO]

Your first weekend in your 2619 will, hopefully, confirm in your mind that you got a far value. Once you have enjoyed yourself, it will be worth it.

We had an old popup that we bought for $1,000. Every time we went camping, my wife told me "this was the best $1,000 we ever spent". Sold the popup and got a 2417, and we are very happy we did. While the popup was "luxury" compared to tent-camping, the TM is a whole lot better than the pup.

Get to know your 2619, relax, enjoy. Congratulations!