2023 2518 kd

[Twinkee75]

I did it!

Here's my new toy. Pulled by my other toy, 2021 Tesla model Y.

Cannot wait to take it out next weekend.

Interior pics to come.

 

[Bill]

Congratulations! Both toys look great!

Perhaps it is just the camera angle, but the TM appears to be nose-low. If so, you need to adjust it to be level when packed up for camping.

Bill

 

[Twinkee75]

Thanks Bill!

You're right. Way too low. Rookie move. Fixing that today so I am towing level for sure.

 

[chunker-TMO]

I'd love to hear what kind of range you get with your model Y towing the TrailManor.

I have a 2518 as well, and I'm towing with an Honda Odyssey but would love to upgrade to some kind of EV at some point.

 

[Wavery]

Thanks Bill!

You're right. Way too low. Rookie move. Fixing that today so I am towing level for sure.

That may be a challenge. I doubt that a WDH would work on the Tesla. Using a drawbar with a 4-6" lift on a hitch that has a 3500# rating and 350# tongue wt rating is really not a good idea. Those lift/drop extensions place a lot of torque on the trailer hitch and lower the hitch rating dramatically. I had a 6,000# rated hitch break while towing a 4,000# trailer with a 6" drop hitch. The insurance company refused payment on the claim (the trailer hit another car) because of the drop hitch. They claimed that the 6" drop lowered the rating on my trailer hitch by 40%.

If you are going to tow with the Tesla, you may be better off towing bow down. It's really not a big deal. Towing bow up, is a big deal.

 

[Wavery]

I'd love to hear what kind of range you get with your model Y towing the TrailManor.

I have a 2518 as well, and I'm towing with an Honda Odyssey but would love to upgrade to some kind of EV at some point.

You may want to look at the new "Rivian" it has a tow rating of 7,000#.

 

[Twinkee75]

Update

I took my TM out on a weekender. So fun! I love all the amenities! As I mentioned in my other post, my TM delivery was delayed as I did not want the cassette toilet it was built with. Dealer got the parts from TM factory to remodel and I was thinking they were going to give me a Thetford (although I read that they had discontinued them, I was unsure of what to expect.) I got a Dometic flush toilet installed. Very happy with that. Also experienced some minor electrical issues. Although fine before, the electric slide doesn't work off the battery (works when plugged in to shore power) and the electric tongue jack also doesn't work. That was a fun learning experience....although I don't think my husband would have used the word "fun." We will be troubleshooting that this weekend.

I'd love to hear what kind of range you get with your model Y towing the TrailManor.

So just like a gas vehicle's efficiency drops when towing, so does my Tesla's range. By 50%. A 3 hour trip (about 200 miles) that normally would require one charging stop, required two stops. That may be an issue for some, but I'm a bit of a gypsy so it's not about rushing to the destination for me. Towing a Trailmanor with a Tesla is quite a conversation starter, it seems. Both are very unique and lots of people have questions. It's fun to share tips and tricks, so I don't mind my road time being extended to chat. I mean, who buys a travel trailer to rush around? This is leisure, right? Overall, it adds time to the trip, but still costs a fraction. My four charging stops (total for the trip) cost me about $45. I charged my car at home before leaving and also charged it before we left as we were hooked up to a 30 amp post at the site.

Wavery - Regarding your comments related to WDH and risers (sorry I have to figure out how to put two people's quotes in here) your picture is scary! I hope no one was seriously hurt for sure. I definitely agree there is a lot one has to account for related to weight and safety when towing, regardless of your trailer and TV. I know that, for the most part, towing with a bit of a drop isn't a big issue and it is recommended to just leave it if your are within 2" or so. My discrepancy is 10 inches though. That's just too much of a nose dive for my comfort level. Not to mention my propane tanks are horizontal on this model and really shouldn't be bouncing around at that decline.

I got a hitch rated for 8000# as I agree that a lift/drop reduces hitch capacity by up to 50%. I intend to get an even higher capacity hitch to ensure I am well within my limits. For this particular trip I did not have 1000lbs of cargo so I was ok. I am not sure if I will add weight distribution or not, I am still researching. Once I was pulling my trailer level, there was improvement in the leveling of the car...but not completely. I can see the benefit of doing that just to save your rear end tires alone!

There is a great video on Youtube by Can-Am where they put an Airstream on a Tesla using a weight distribution hitch. This Tesla is smaller than mine too. Pretty cool stuff. Check it out.

Also, the Rivian is ok, but Ford's EV truck is far superior in my humble (albeit newbie) opinion. The biggest hurdle with other EV's right now is the lack of a strong charging station network. It's really tough going to some areas because of that. I know there is talk about Tesla sharing its network and if they do, I hope they add pull through charging. I do have to disconnect my TM to charge. Another potential pitfall for some, I would agree. Definitely have to not be in a hurry.

 

[Bill]

Those lift/drop extensions place a lot of torque on the trailer hitch and lower the hitch rating dramatically. I had a 6,000# rated hitch break while towing a 4,000# trailer with a 6" drop hitch.

Wavery - If I am seeing your photo correctly - and ISTR from an earlier discussion - the part that failed was not the hitch (meaning the ball, the drawbar, and the ballmount), but rather the hitch receiver that was bolted/welded to the tow vehicle's frame. Is that correct? If so, buying a stronger ballmount won't help. It needs a stronger attachment to the tow vehicle.

The insurance company refused payment on the claim (the trailer hit another car) because of the drop hitch.

With great respect, may I ask the name of your insurance company? Did they give you notice of any kind that this would be a non-reimbursable situation? It probably would have been buried deep in the verbiage of the policy in a section called "We do not cover ..." or similar. But given that you were doing everything well within the advertised ratings of the equipment involved, it should have been there.

Bill

 

[Shane826]

Yeah I’d like to know who used a drop hitch as a reason weasel their way out of paying, too. I assume you mean a drop ball, to lower the ball and level the camper? That’s just shady whether it’s in the fine print or not. If the trailer isn’t riding level, that’s asking for an accident. I might’ve called a lawyer on that one.

 

[Bill]

There is a great video on Youtube by Can-Am where they put an Airstream on a Tesla using a weight distribution hitch. This Tesla is smaller than mine too. Pretty cool stuff. Check it out.

This is one of the best WDH setup videos I have seen. Andy Thompson of Can-Am RV, an Airstream dealership, shows a great deal of understandable detail on proper setup of a weight-distributing hitch. He uses a 2019 Airstream Tommy Bahama 19’ trailer for the demo, hitching it to a Tesla. I don’t know much about Teslas, so I didn’t recognize the model. When it was done, I was left with one question. That trailer has a dry weight of 6400 pounds, including battery and propane. Once you add all your camping stuff (food, water, clothes, tools, furniture, bedding, chairs, etc etc,) it will exceed easily 7000 pounds. Is that Tesla rated to tow anywhere near 7000 pounds? I can’t find a Tesla rated for anywhere near that. Maybe the video is just using the Tesla because, as Andy says toward the end, it shows well on the camera.

But then the same guy has done another Tesla-and-Airstream video here
Long Distance Towing - with a Tesla and an Airstream - RV Lifestyle Magazine.
In this case he is towing a 27’ Airstream with a 2021 Model S Long Range Tesla. He doesn’t name the Airstream model, but it is quite likely a Flying Cloud. That trailer is actually a bit lighter than the Tommy Bahama, with dry weight coming in at about 5900 pounds. Again when you add your stuff, it will weigh at least 6500 pounds. The info I find says that this Tesla has a tow rating of 1600 kg (about 3500 pounds).

This video spends a lot of time talking about power, acceleration, hill-climbing, range, charge time, distance between chargers, and all the other things that occupy most discussions of EVs. It says exactly nothing about weight of the trailer or towing capacity of the vehicle. So what is going on? Is there something about Teslas that I don’t know? Does tow rating mean something different for EVs than it does for a gas/diesel vehicle? Will this seemingly-excess weight damage the Tesla after while? Are these towing setups even safe?

I’m confused. But I'm pretty sure that if someone on this forum put a 10,000-pound trailer behind one of the 5000-pound-rated vehicles that many of our members use, there would be an outcry.

Bill

 

[Twinkee75]

Are these towing setups safe? Does tow rating mean something different for EVs than it does for a gas/diesel vehicle? Will this seemingly-excess weight damage the Tesla after while?

I, as you know, am not the expert by a very, very long stretch. But...I think that video was just to show he can do it. I would be interested in knowing what the tongue weight was on that set up. I definitely wouldn't want to try it myself. Teslas have an amazing amount of torque and if balanced right, it could tow it, but given how heavy it is, the range was probably terrible. I don't think it would necessarily "damage" anything as there are no moving parts on a Tesla and as long as you are balanced I suppose it could work.... although very, very inefficiently. Like having an English Bulldog pull a snow sled. They CAN, but not far.

Regarding tow rating. I will say the quick answer is no. Mine is an SUV that was built, stock, with a receiver for towing a maximum of 3500 lbs. That car in the video does not exceed my rating. I know that for certain.

 

[Bill]

Yeah I’d like to know who used a drop hitch as a reason weasel their way out of paying, too. That’s just shady.

Not to beat a dead horse, but it makes me wonder about the insurance aspects of towing a 7000-pound trailer with a tow vehicle rated at 3500 pounds. At very least, I would notify my insurance company in writing that I am towing a model XXX trailer with a model YYY tow vehicle. if there is a problem, it is most likely up to their underwriters to flag it.

And take the time to read the "We do not cover ..." section of your policies. You can bet that the word "misuse" appears in there somewhere.

Bill

 

[Shane826]

Yeah Bill I agree with that, too. I’ve heard of insurance companies declining coverage when towing above limits, whether it be payload or tow rating. And I can’t say I blame them there. But any time you mention that to someone who brags about towing above limits they get all defensive about naw that’s just a myth. Let’s just say I don’t want to find out if it’s a myth or not the hard way.

 

[Bill]

I think that video was just to show he can do it..

You are probably right. I don't mean to be a Debbi Downer here, but I think some folks will go out and do it because "the video said it will work".

I would be interested in knowing what the tongue weight was on that set up

Just for general information, the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight. The issue is sway - if tongue weight is less than 10%, then sway is likely. TrailManors are built with a tongue weight of 14% just for that reason.

Bill

 

[Twinkee75]

You are probably right. I don't mean to be a Debbi Downer here, but I think some folks will go out and do it because "the video said it will work".

Just for general information, the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight. The issue is sway - if tongue weight is less than 10%, then sway is likely. TrailManors are built with a tongue weight of 14% just for that reason.

Bill

Thanks for the math, Bill! I don't think you're a Downer. I agree with you that videos like that don't disclose appropriately that the equipment usage in that manner was done by professional and should not be recommended (or fantasized for a lack of a better term) to the casual consumer. Disclaimers are very important and it should have said he was exceeding the recommendation for the TV, with or without the WDH.

What I did like about the video was not so much the Tesla, just the examples of how to measure and set up a WDH. I did find that informative.

 

[Wavery]

With great respect, may I ask the name of your insurance company? Did they give you notice of any kind that this would be a non-reimbursable situation? It probably would have been buried deep in the verbiage of the policy in a section called "We do not cover ..." or similar. But given that you were doing everything well within the advertised ratings of the equipment involved, it should have been there.

Bill

I have State Farm. I thought that I was within limits of equipment being used. However, the 9" (State Farm called it 6") drop bar (rated at 6K#) reduces the rating of the factory trailer hitch by 50%. They also stated that (due to noticeable rust) the hitch suffered from a lack of owner's maintenance. That was a bunch of crap and I would have fought it because it was just surface rust that may be seen on a brand new vehicle after the 1st rain. However, they were right about the drop bar reducing the hitch rating.

 

[Bill]

Wavery -

Not that it is any of my business, but I think you were hosed. I think that the State Farm rep was confusing (intentionally or not) a "hitch extender" with a "drop hitch". It seems to be widely accepted that a hitch extender reduces the weight rating of the hitch receiver by 50%. But I have never seen any thought that a drop hitch will do so. We have had at least one discussion of extenders here on the Forum, and E-trailer has several discussion, one at

https://www.etrailer.com/question-148566.html

I will tell you that I bought the #80232 long-shank hitch shown in that E-trailer discussion, and although the E-trailer Expert at

https://www.etrailer.com/question-547625.html

explicitly says that it does not reduce the weight capacity of a hitch like a hitch extender does, the idea of it scared me so badly that I discarded it. Anyone want it free? It is still on the floor of my garage, hardly used. Come get it.

Just my thoughts. They are worth what you paid for them.

Bill

 

[Wavery]

Maybe this will help:

 

[Bill]

Wavery -

The diagrams helped a lot. Thanks for taking the time to prepare them. They made me realize that you and I have been talking about entirely different things.

You are talking about the fore-and-aft forces on the hitch receiver that result from starting or stopping the rig. With a drop hitch, these forces produce the leverage you described, and the problem you described. I had not considered the forces in this fore-and-aft direction. Hitch weight is not a factor here.

I have been thinking of the up-and-down forces on the hitch receiver, which are related to hitch weight. And in fact, the E-trailer discussions that I linked earlier are all related to hitch weight. Fore-and-aft force is not a factor here.

You've given me a new perspective, and I will have to think about it for a while. Thanks for doing so.

Bill.

 

[Bill]

Just a quick add to my post #14 above, regarding hitch weight as a percentage of total trailer weight. In that post, I said
"... the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight.".
That is the number on every trailer web page I've ever seen.

Today I noticed that the Tesla web site

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_jp/GUID-A6D6CF75-C9CA-4140-97FA-341E27E3B4D8.html

says

"The tongue weight is the downward force that the weight of the trailer exerts on the hitch. It must be at least 4% of the total trailer load."

Four per cent! I've never heard a number anywhere near that low. But it would explain why the Tesla-and-Airstream videos seem to say it is OK to run with such a low hitch weight. Is it really OK?

Even the Airstream web site, at

https://support.airstream.com/hc/en-us/articles/5258257694996-Weight-distribution-hitches-101 says

"...the proper tongue weight of the loaded trailer should be ... 10-15 percent of the loaded total".

So I am not sure why Tesla thinks that 4% is OK. Maybe there is something different about Teslas. Or maybe it is just hype. I personally wouldn't come anywhere near doing it - but that's just me.

Bill