TM's apparently DO NOT like dirt roads

[ShrimpBurrito]

If you've been following the GFI thread, you know we just got back from a trip to the Grand Canyon. It was fabulous. A really incredible trip. We camped at the South Rim "Trailer Village" (aka parking lot) the night before we hiked down to the river, where we stayed 2 nights. After returning to the rim, we pulled up stakes and made the 4.5 hour trek to the North Rim, which was basically abandoned. We literally saw about 2 dozen people there the 3 days we were there (including the rangers), and we went to the visitor's center, some overlooks, etc.

The North Rim campground is a far cry from Trailer Village, and we essentially had the whole place to ourselves. Something like 85 sites (no hookups), and there was only 1 other out-of-view group there the first night. We went out and about the second day, and upon our return, the tent campers were gone (so now 84 of the 85 sites are open), but much to our surprise, we saw the 2 sites IMMEDIATELY NEXT TO US now occupied. I was dumbfounded. The icing on the cake was when one of them flipped on their generator at about 8am the next morning. Unbelievable. I should have expected that when they had every light in their 5th wheel on (even the one in the storage compartment) while everyone was outside around the fire.

We then headed up the Utah to do some hiking, and then made our way back home to the LA area.

But the point of this post is to tell our experience with the TM. It was not pretty. While it was still way more comfortable than sleeping on the ground while it's 20 degrees out, the TM gods were not looking out for us by any means. It started before we left home....

1) The TM kept tripping the GFI breaker. Thought it was maybe because I had just washed it, hoping it would dry out within the day or two until we expected to use hookups. No dice. As backup, I took along my 3-stage charger to keep us afloat. I still haven't figured it out.

2) The water pump died. Spent about an hour trouble shooting the obvious, which isn't real easy because the pump, water tank, and heater are all under the sink, and then gave up and we used water out of a 5-gallon jug. Amazingly, we used WAY less water this way vs. coming out of the sink. While we MAYBE used a 1/2 gallon to wash dishes with the jug, we easily use 2-3 gallons per meal when using the sink.

3) On our way to Utah, we had to make an 22-mile roundtrip on a dirt road, with a fair amount of washboarding and some desert washes. I wouldn't really call it off-roading though as we have a 2WD vehicle with running boards, so our clearance isn't particularly high. This is where the fun really began. First thing I noticed was the sewer hose flailing about like a newborn chicken in my side mirror. We lost a bumper end cap, and almost lost the sewer hose. I hiked back about 1/2 mile to find it, but had no luck. We ended up rubber-banding some plastic bags over the bumper to keep the hose till we passed by an RV shop where we bought a new one.

4) The dining table pulled out of the wall. The holes stripped. After we got home, I ended up jamming some epoxied bamboo skewers to rebuild the holes, but this method doesn't work nearly as well with aluminum sandwiched foam as it does in wood. The screw, finding the path of least resistance, pushes through the bamboo, and then wiggles out of the bamboo to the foam. But it will hold for now.

5) You know those 4 black spring-loaded latches that hold down the shells? I lost a bolt. No biggie. Just one more thing.

6) The oven fell out. Exciting, eh? Not all the way, but the side furthest from the door pulled completely out from the cabinet, and that side of the oven/stove dropped down about 2 inches....which bent the hinge to the cabinet door beneath it, preventing it from closing. A metal bracket to the range also fell out....I think the whole oven/stove is in there by less than 6 one-inch screws.

7) My personal favorite: the toilet leaked. INSIDE the TM. It was about 2/3 full. Very smelly. Not a ton of leakage, but it doesn't take much to make the place a stink bomb. And as I laid in bed, right next to the bathroom, it seemed that all I could smell was a cesspool. A bit of exaggeration, but there was definitely a lingering odor. You knew something bad happened when you opened the door. Yes, I put plastic wrap on the toilet. Stretch-tite, even -- better than Saran Wrap. That perhaps make it worse. The waste jumped up onto the plastic, where it then made its way to the side and dripped down the outside of the toilet. It also leaked out the back, where the main housing seal was improperly seated. My fault -- although I wouldn't have had the seal off in the first place if the vinyl skirt wasn't giving me such issues. The waste made the linoleum around the toilet curl, which popped out the moulding. Of course, that means it also made its way onto the plywood. So I've pulled up the toilet, washed everything up, and laid down a bleach solution onto the wood. Hopefully that will get rid of the stench and prevent growth of mold, maggots, or anything else as foul. I hate bugs.

I'd say my relationship with the Thetford is now love/hate. I love the lightweight and lack of water use, but the vinyl skirt and the inherent design flaw of having 6 gallons of sewage above the floor are issues I'd rather do without. I searched briefly for another company that made a recirculating toilet, but came up short. I would imagine that you can still recirculate from a black tank beneath the floor. And I cannot believe that all Thetford could come up with was a vinyl skirt is beyond me. How about a spring loaded stainless or plastic flap? And the screen cone isn't even attached to the bottom of the toilet. This makes 2 problems: 1) it allows bits of TP and solid waste to sometimes go outside the cone, where it is recirculated, and 2) it prevents the TP and bits of solid waste outside the cone from being drained when you open the valve.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

Dave

Except for the excitement, how was the trip? Anxious for a hiking report! You did confirm my thought that I would never take the TM off-road...it just doesn't look like it will hold up to much jostling.

As I wrote in our private post, we went to Zion, Bryce, Coral Pink Sand Dunes and Upper & Lower Antelope Canyons in Page AZ last week. If anyone ever gets a chance to do a slot canyon, jump at the chance! Possibly the most fabulous place I have ever been.

[Wavery]

Thanks for that post Dave. I think that I learned from it. I will be sure to dump our toilet before traveling.

I usually dump the toilet, holding tank and even the fresh water tank before towing. I see little up side to towing around all that weight. This is just one more reason to do it.........eeeeeeeew!!!!!!!

As for the table screws pulling out, get yourself some nut-serts. You drill a larger hole (about 3/8" I think) insert the elongated nut-sert, put in the screw and tighten it. That collapses the nut-sert flat inside the wall and puts a permanent threaded nut on the inside of the wall. What you see on the outside of the wall looks like a 1/4" washer. It should never strip. It's what they use for the brackets on the hanging cabinets. I can't imagine why they didn't use them on the table brackets.

Wayne

[B_and_D]

It sounds like you managed to have a great trip, even with the hassles. Post some pictures, if you can!

People can be really clueless about setting up next to you and switching on the genny at 8 am. I don't know about you, but I rarely get to sleep in, and when I'm on vacation, the last thing I want to hear is someone's generator right next to me at 8 am. Sometimes I think we should get a sign and put it outside that says "Generator-free neighbors preferred". We'd really like to go down to Seacliff Beach (10 minutes away) and just spend the night down there in the non-reservation section, first come, first served, but you're assured of generator noise at all hours and we just won't go there anymore unless we get a full-hookup site. It just ruins the ambience. I want to listen to the waves, not someone's contractor-grade generator.

We love our TM, but we don't think it's a good off-road trailer. So we don't take it on rough roads. We want to keep it nice (& intact). There are a few campgrounds we'd love to go at the end of bumpy, gravel & dirt roads, but our TM will never go there. We don't think it's made for that.

If we were into off-roading more, we'd go with something more on the lines of the Jayco Baja, or just a pop-up truck camper.

I hope you can get your problems fixed easily so you can get out on the road and enjoy yourselves again!

[ShrimpBurrito]

Just found a new one....

8) The water heater slid outside about 2 inches.

All in all, none of these issues are really a big deal except the toilet. In fact, some of the stuff may have been loose already before we went down the road.

I think I'd go down it again, but I'd be darn sure the toilet was empty both ways....that means we'd use the shovel. And we'd probably slow down to a crawl pace....literally, like 5 mph.

Wayne - thanks for the tip about the nut-serts. I was wondering what they used for the cabinets.

Dave

Some people have reported some success with putting saran wrap over the toilet bowl to keep stuff where it belongs. I have not had a reason to try that, yet.

Alternatively, get a blue tote. Transfer the black tank to the blue tote, thus emptying the toilet. Then drive out the rough road.

My recommendation if you will be traveling off pavement for any length of time is to lower the pressure in the tires by a third or half. That will greatly smooth the ride and reduce vibration greatly. It will also reduce the chance of a puncture and increase traction. A soft tire will give over sharp objects better.

On pavement I wouldn't exceed 40mph for any significant distance or the tires will overheat and become damaged possibly blowing out immediately or later from damage. Therefore buy yourself a small compressor like a Truck Air. Skip on the really small cheap ones that won't be able to handle the volume of SUV tires.

On pavement I wouldn't exceed 40mph

Lars, Are you saying you never drive over 40MPH ---you don't go that slow on the 210 or the 10 or the 5 do you. You would never get anyplace. LOL

You were kidding on the 40mph, right? Although sometimes 40mph on the LA freeways is fast.

[Unstable_Tripod]

Another problem with using a TM for back road camping is dust infiltration. I was in Arizona this spring and attended a boondock rally with people I know from another website. The meadow we used was about 22 miles north of Payson and required driving on 16 miles of gravel or dirt to be reached. I kept it under 40 and didn't notice much bouncing or vibration.

However, when I set up I found a thick coating of dust all over the interior. The dust gets into the trailer by flowing up between the box wall and the walls of the shells. It was horrible. The dust was everywhere, even inside of containers that were inside of cabinets. The stove, sink and toilet were coated with it. I spent about six hours cleaning the interior.

Later I discovered that the dust had coated all of the weatherstrip pads of the shells and gotten into grooves and seams where the velcro pads for the front shell are attached. It was also in all of the narrow grooves in the window frames and in the ceiling light, fan and vent fixtures.

I've decided that the TM is not a back road camper and will never take it on a dirt or gravel road again because I don't want to spend ten hours detailing it after every trip. This is too bad because I prefer the primitive CGs and boondock spots that I find on such roads.