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Old 01-27-2008, 04:52 PM   #11
all4camping
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I found my 2006 TM2619 on ebay - no kidding. It had never been used and still had the plastic sheet pieces on the toilet, and hang tags on the appliances. The owner was almost 2 hrs away. She did not get her asking price and sent me a pm after the auction was closed and we went from there. I had a dealer send a truck to pick it up, perform and inspection, etc. The dealer even gave me a small lesson and I was able to purchase a warranty from them since the unit had been out of warranty 30 days. All my friends looked at me like I was crazy! I've had THE MOST fun and family experiences with my TM! Absolutely NO regrets.
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Old 01-27-2008, 05:55 PM   #12
LifeIsGood
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Wow! Sounds like you were quite lucky. Now, you live in Tennessee where the factory is and you couldn't find a good deal thru a TM dealer in your state? Hmm. What's up with that? I'm really intrigued at how hard it is to come by one of these things. I looked on ebay last week and there were only 2 listed. I wonder if there is anyone throughout my whole state that even owns one! But you know what? I want to own one! LOL My family and I have done the tent camping thing long enough and have been caught in too many rainstorms. We've looked at the traditional travel trailers but we can't see hauling a big, tall box where you can't see a thing behind you and have your gas mileage cut in half - might as well splurge for the small motorhome then if you want lousy mileage. I see the trailmanor as something so much easier to tow with all the amenities and comforts of home with the bonus of saving on gas mileage, too. I know my family would have SO MUCH fun with it! The more I read this forum the more I want one!

Linda
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Old 01-27-2008, 10:13 PM   #13
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I've noticed that too. Nobody talks prices paid. When shopping for a car, there is so much information out there about how to get the best deal, and about MSRP vs. invoice. I was able to negotiate (all via email) a very good price for our last new car purchase based on a wealth of information on the internet. I simply offered what I knew (some) other folks were paying (somewhere between MSRP and invoice for that particular car) and a dealer a couple hundred miles away met my price. Our first visit to the dealership was to pick up the vehicle at the already negotiated price.

For TMs, I suspect that dealers are willing to come down quite a bit from MSRP, but I don't really know. In California, we have three TM dealers to choose from (Anaheim, Sacramento, and now San Martin). The advertised prices for the Anaheim dealer are lower than those for the Saramento dealer, and the San Martin dealer doesn't talk price at all. The salesperson just invited us to "come into the office and let's make a deal." In all fairness, they're a brand new TM dealer, and they were just opening for business.

I really hate haggling in the dealer's office. I want to pay a fair, but not unreasonable, price. How does one know what that is?
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:43 AM   #14
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I have read somewhere that the markup for RV vehicles is between 20 & 30%.

I have the bill of sale for my TM when bought by the original owners in June, 2003. The list price was $24873, and they paid $19,819. That is a little better than a 20% mark down.

And just like a car, when you drive it off of the showroom floor, the price comes way down, but especially in RVs. Even though TMs seem to keep their values a lot more that others, I bought mine for about 1/3 of the price paid by the original owners just 3 1/2 years earlier....of course, I feel that I got a great deal. The NADA on mine is now somewhere in the $12,000 range, so that is only a 40% loss from what they paid 4 1/2 years ago....probably pretty good for an RV. (Why does "an" sound correct in front of the consonant R....or is that just me??? No wonder people say that English is a difficult language .)

Hope this helps.

Chap
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Old 01-28-2008, 07:52 AM   #15
LifeIsGood
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I recently read a book called, How to Buy an RV and Save Thousands, by Don Wright who spent 20 yrs writing about the RV industry (Trailer Life, Camping Life, etc.) and also worked in market research for 7 yrs for two of the big RV manuf. - Holiday Rambler and Newmar. He says that dealers typically mark up each of their products between 30-40% earning gross profits between 23-29%. The thing that really got me was the mark-up on the options. Say a factory-installed TV antenna would be marked up about 150% to the dealer because, of course, they are buying those in volume, and then the dealer would add another 75-80% to their price. So I'm thinking that whatever the MSRP is, offering 20-25% lower should be a fair deal, but maybe not. It's really hard to tell how much of a profit a dealer is making on each of these particular trailers. They are definitely different than your typical box trailer. It could be a lot less or maybe not and I wonder how much the freight charges for the dealer are, especially now. Some dealers don't pass that cost onto the customer like EVERY car dealer does. It seems to me the way the TM factory is presenting their product in a way that it is sought after but hard to get (supply and demand) and the consumer is willing to pay more to get it. Does this make sense to anyone? Maybe that is the reason for so few dealers scattered throughout the states. Gotta run.

Have a wonderful day, everyone!

Linda
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:11 PM   #16
Paul_Heuvelhorst
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood View Post
I recently read a book called, How to Buy an RV and Save Thousands, by Don Wright who spent 20 yrs writing about the RV industry (Trailer Life, Camping Life, etc.) and also worked in market research for 7 yrs for two of the big RV manuf. - Holiday Rambler and Newmar. He says that dealers typically mark up each of their products between 30-40% earning gross profits between 23-29%... So I'm thinking that whatever the MSRP is, offering 20-25% lower should be a fair deal, but maybe not.
Linda, Experience tells me that TM doesn't have the markups in them as do the type RV you refer to above. We bought our TM from Dinuba RV when they were located in Dinuba. At the time, they gave us 10% off the MSRP without our asking. It took a bit of negotiating, after we identified the options we wanted, to get an additional 5% off.

The MSRP is a "ficticious" price, so that is not the place to start. Research shows that you need to find out as much as you can about the dealer invoice and work from that number. In the case of TM, it would be wise to offer the dealer a price that is about $1,000 above his invoice, if he'll share that info in the first place (my un-educated guess is about 25-30% below the MSRP). The reason I use $1,000 is that the dealer is due his profit for ordering and preparing the unit for delivery to you and it seems fair for a unit between $20K-$30K.

On used trailers, always offer a lower price than you think it is worth, based on NADA Guide pricing, and let the owner counter-offer. You should wind up somewhere in the middle between what the listed price was and what you offered.
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:04 PM   #17
LifeIsGood
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Hi Paul - Are you saying that if you can find out the dealer invoice to offer $1,000 over that price? That doesn't seem like much of a profit for a dealer if let's say a dealer purchases a base TM from the factory for $19,000, plus freight, and possibly tax(?), and he does not pass along the freight cost to the customer, what would be the point in selling them? You'd have to be selling quite an inventory to make a living. There must be more profit in them than that, which I think must come from all the options added on. I am looking at an 08 2720SL w/$4500 in options, base price of $27,581 (dealer actually lists the base price $500 less than TM's base price), is not charging the $1600 dealer prep and freight charge and I have negotiated the total price down to $25,000 total (which is basically 25% off). After looking at selling prices everywhere else, I am thinking this is a pretty good deal or possibly the best price I can find in my area, anyways. Anyone care to offer their opinions? Please? Looking forward to hearing any comments.

Linda
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Old 01-28-2008, 09:47 PM   #18
Paul_Heuvelhorst
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Linda,
The price structure of RVs is very different from automobiles. However, most auto dealers consider it a good deal ($20-$30K prices) if they can make $500 to $1,000 over their cost. I have purchased several vehicles for my personal use by offering them $500 over their invoice, which is several thousand dollars less than the MSRP.

The numbers you list are still the MSRP, not the dealer invoice, and those should not be the prices from which you negotiate. I think you can realistically figure that the dealer's actual cost on the trailer is about 20-25% less than the MSRP, and the options are somewhere between 30-50% less than the MSRP. Destination charges are usually the actual cost and normally cannot be negotiated. Everything else is negotiable.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, the dealer offered me 10% off the top before I even asked for it. Then I started negotiating. That was 10 years ago, so I can't give you my opinion on current TM costs... just a strategy. BTW, did I mention, before I retired I was a professional buyer in public education? That is where I learned to research pricing structures and negotiate.
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:04 PM   #19
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Paul,

When you say the dealer initially offered you 10% 'off the top,' are you referring to dealer asking price? MSRP? (Aren't they usually pretty much one and the same?) And how does one go about finding invoice prices for TMs? It seems to me that it's a well kept secret.

Judy
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Old 01-28-2008, 11:36 PM   #20
larsdennert
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We bought ours three years used for about 1/2 MSRP. It needed a few things but I had been looking for a few months. TMs in ebay auctions went for bank! I was seeing ten year old units selling for over 10K. Ones in printed ads disappeared quick. I got lucky and found a Dealer who had taken one in trade and sat on it for months not being familiar with TMs. They were happy to throw in at least a thousand in extras like a full service and repair, controller and wiring. TMs are pricey compared to box trailers though. About double for the same amenities.
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