TrailManor Owner's Forum  

Go Back   TrailManor Owner's Forum > Guest Area > Prospective Owner Questions
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:05 PM
larsdennert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's all relative. My brother-in-law tows his toy hauler with an Excursion which is the biggest SUV there is. His rear drops 6" WITH the WDH. No one is above the line per se but for a TM, I agree there is a line. Everyone draws it differently. I think it's worth trying both ways but I prefer not having a WDH as it is less to hookup and allows me to tow off road. Since you will be putting in a 40 gal tank, that's another 160lbs in addition to the stock full 20 gal tank. You'll see really quick if your Ridgeline will need help. 300lbs on the back of a 1/2 ton truck (1000lb) shouldn't be an issue. I've gone on trips with far more than 300lbs loaded up (without the trailer).

Custom RV is great. That's where mine originally came from. I bought it used from a third party but almost bought another unit from them. Nice guys!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-28-2007, 11:53 PM
mike-rm-cd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's the great thing about the TM Owner's Forum site: everybody has a bit of information to offer. We all then go out and off to try and to experiment. If one configuration works well for you - use it. If another works better, THAT may be the answer.

The older I become, the fewer the absolutes and truths! All works, some work better - and that may also be perspective and experience and "feel."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:57 AM
Bill's Avatar
Bill Bill is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 9,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdennert View Post
It's all relative. 300lbs on the back of a 1/2 ton truck (1000lb) shouldn't be an issue. I've gone on trips with far more than 300lbs loaded up (without the trailer).
Lars -

I think you may have missed the point of a WDH. Putting 300 pounds in the wayback, above the truck's axle, is different from putting 300 pounds way out BEHIND the axle. The first situation calls for simple weight-carrying capacity, which a half-ton truck certainly has. In the second situation, the weight is on one end of a teeter-totter, which tends to lift the other end (the front wheels) off the ground. This so-called unweighting is what is dangerous, since it effects steering, handling, and braking.

By the way, most folks find that the tongue weight of as loaded 2720 is closer to 450 pounds than it is to 300 pounds.

Just my thoughts ...

Bill
__________________
2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
Bill's Tech Stuff album
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:49 AM
larsdennert
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

That's interesting info. I'd like to find a scale with enough capacity to measure my tongue weight. I've always wondered whether TM's specs of 300 included batteries and propane. Probably not. Looking at how far back the axle sits, it would be amazing. 450 would be above the tongue weight for a 3500lb tow spec vehicle. Not a good thing. I can see how a WDH would be pretty critical to carry/transfer that kind of weight on any softer suspension.

I guess I'm a bad example to compare to as I have an otherwise modified vehicle. I can report that I have no noticeable unloading of the front end as the vehicle sits level while carrying. It handles pretty poorly anyway and the TM doesn't make it any worse. 60-65mph is comfortable though. Bumpy freeways at 35mph can be bouncy though.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:33 PM
Bill's Avatar
Bill Bill is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 9,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdennert View Post
That's interesting info. I'd like to find a scale with enough capacity to measure my tongue weight. I've always wondered whether TM's specs of 300 included batteries and propane. Probably not. Looking at how far back the axle sits, it would be amazing.
Lars -

I don't know if batteries and propane are included in the stated tongue weight or not. But as you point out, nearly everything you load into a TM will sit forward of the axle, and will add a bit to the tongue weight. By the way, you can determine the tongue weight pretty easily with a bathroom scale. (Numbers below are examples.) Just get a strong board, maybe 4 feet long. Draw two lines across the board, perhaps 3 feet apart. Draw a third line exactly halfway between those marks. Put the scale on the ground, and put a couple bricks beside it, about 3 feet away. Now put a dowel, a piece of pipe, or something equally narrow in the middle of the scale, and a similar narrow object on the bricks. Set your board to bridge the gap, and make sure the dowels (etc) are exactly under the lines on the board. Now put your TM tongue on the center line, and crank it up a bit. At this point, half of the tongue weight is being supported by the scale, and half by the bricks - so read the scale and double the reading. That's the tongue weight.

If it exceeds the capacity of your scale, you can set the lengths to 2/3 and 1/3, and triple the scale reading.
Quote:
I guess I'm a bad example to compare to as I have an otherwise modified vehicle. I can report that I have no noticeable unloading of the front end, [since] the vehicle sits level while carrying.
Heh, heh! Yes, we guys who advocate for WDHs just hate you guys who use air bags. Air bags make things level - but they don't restore the missing weight to the front end. Only a WDH can do that. So even though the vehicle is level, you are still driving around with extra weight on the rear suspension and tires, and too little weight on the front tires. How much weight is removed from the front end? You'd have to find a real scale and measure. Does that amount of unweighting matter on your particular vehicle? Well, I don't know - but I'm unwilling to take the chance on mine. YMMV, of course.
Quote:
Bumpy freeways at 35mph can be bouncy though.
That's one of the joys of air bags.

In the WDH vs airbags debate, there will always be doubters out there, and air bags eliminate that one additional step in the hookup procedure - snapping up the chains. So we agree to disagree, and wish you well.

Bill
__________________
2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
Bill's Tech Stuff album
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:36 PM
camp2canoe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I tow my 2619 with a 2003 Ford 4wd F150 Supercrew with a fiberglass cap and usually a full load in the bed and a canoe or two on top of the cap. I've never felt the need for a WDH on this half ton unit. Just as an aside, I have grey hair from towing my 22' sailboat with this same rig which is literally all over the road when going downhill or at anything over 55mph. The dry weight of the unloaded boat w/o trailer is @2293# and the estimated dry weight of the 2619 without gear is 2673#. I suspect this is because my boat/trailer rig are not very well matched but also because TM did something right in designing the 2619. - camp2canoe
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:04 PM
PopBeavers
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by camp2canoe View Post
I tow my 2619 with a 2003 Ford 4wd F150 Supercrew with a fiberglass cap and usually a full load in the bed and a canoe or two on top of the cap. I've never felt the need for a WDH on this half ton unit. Just as an aside, I have grey hair from towing my 22' sailboat with this same rig which is literally all over the road when going downhill or at anything over 55mph. The dry weight of the unloaded boat w/o trailer is @2293# and the estimated dry weight of the 2619 without gear is 2673#. I suspect this is because my boat/trailer rig are not very well matched but also because TM did something right in designing the 2619. - camp2canoe
Can you slide the axle back a little on the sailboat trailer? Some generic boat trailers have a small amount of adjustment capability.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:36 PM
Bill's Avatar
Bill Bill is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 9,259
Default

Camp2canoe -

Wayne has nailed it. You kind of know the weight of the sailboat, now add the weight of the trailer and all the gear you have added to the boat. You know - the aux motor, gasoline, battery, anchors, life jackets, coolers and beverages of your choice, etc. The tongue weight should be a minimum of 10% of the total weight. TM's run closer to 14%, if I recall, and this is what gives them their wonderful lack of sway. If you can move the axle on the sailboat trailer back, to put the tongue weight somewhere in the 10-15% range, you should be a lot happier.

Naturally, all numbers are the loaded, ready-to-tow numbers, of the boat and trailer, not the dry weight of the boat alone. If the dry weight of the boat alone is 2300 pounds, the loaded weight of the boat and trailer is probably around 3000 pounds, so the tongue weight should be at least 300 pounds, and 400 pounds would be better. In other words, if you can bend over, pick up the tongue off the ground and put it on the hitch ball, it is way too light.

Bill
__________________
2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
Bill's Tech Stuff album
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-29-2007, 03:52 PM
grakin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I don't use a WDH, as I don't think my rig would be made any safer with one, although I will try one at some point in time (if I can find a suitable one to borrow from someone), just to see if it would reduce stress or not.

For others using a weight carrying hitch (a NON-WDH), you might want to verify your hitch, drawbar, and ball are beefy enough for the tongue weight. I've seen some pretty weak 2 inch balls, and had to look for one with what I thought was adequate reserve capability (I use a ball and drawbar that are rated for 750 pounds tongue weight, into a receiver that is rated for at least that - forgot the exact spec). With two heavy batteries and propane up front, I figured it's not worth taking a chance (I haven't yet had a chance to weigh the tongue). Personally I'd be very cautious of even stuff rated 500 pounds with a TM, from reported tongue weights I've seen.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:47 PM
Bill & Lisa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Back to the first question. The larger TMs actually have 2 12v recepticles. There is a second 12v and cable connection down low near the floor just forward of the rear bed. This is for a TV in the "bedroom". If you don't have a car adapter, a cheaper route may be to buy one of the small inverters that plug into a 12v recepticle. Then you just plug your regular AC plug into the inverter and charge that way. It is definately not as efficient as charging via DC only but some of these companies charge an arm and a leg for car chargers and one inverter will work for any type of phone, pda, etc. You just have to take turns charging them, but you have to do that anyway even with a car adapter (unless you get one of those plug ins that gives you multiple dc outlets but that is a different story)
Bill
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2021 Trailmanor Owners Page.