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Old 07-25-2010, 06:45 PM   #21
ShrimpBurrito
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Just like the Tundras, the newer (2007-2008 or so and later I believe) model Sequoia's have even more capacity. The vehicle was redesigned....bigger engine too (5.7l vs. 4.7l).

As you can see, M&M's weight limits on his new Tundra are significantly higher than mine.

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Old 07-26-2010, 07:43 AM   #22
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Default 2010 Toyota Highlander Tow Rating

Sorry, I haven't had time for this in the last few days. We've been talking about the GCWR formula and Toyotas for years, and despite posting pictures of my weight placard and copies of owners manual pages, doubt remains. And of course, Toyota has changed a lot of things since they built mine, maybe they've changed this, too.

What we need, but do not have for our forum experts, are these missing parameters, and we will all be at risk of operating a few bricks short of a load here until we have the actual numbers for the 2010 Toyota Highlander referenced at the top of this thread. We are also at risk of spending the rest of our days having to hear about what other people know for sure about their own vehicles whenever someone asks a question about a Toyota Highlander.

1) Gross Vehicle weight rating - It's on the placard on the driver side door post.

2) Gross Combined Weight Rating - The maximum trailer + tow vehicle combo allowed by the manufacturer. Mine is buried deep in the owners manual on one of the pages that talks about towing. In my case, the number is exactly 3500# greater than the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (I have a 3500# tow rating). In my case, that means I can load the tow vehicle to gross and still tow a full 3500# and be in spec.

3) The vehicle curb weight - We can get this from the sales stuff on the Toyota site, if necessary.
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:43 AM   #23
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I'll check the door post, but my manual doesn't appear to have a GCWR listed. I posted all the actual ratings I could find from the manual, and other than that all it does is define some terms.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:54 AM   #24
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Default Toyota towing calculations

Thanks For posting the owners' manual stuff for the Highlander. I was actually hoping that they don't publish Gross Combined Weight Rating anymore, because it fits with the other things Toyota is telling us.

Most car and light truck manufacturers have been providing a rated tow capacity which for some reason includes the payload capacity of the tow vehicle (I'm thinking this is a little deceptive, actually). The effect is to follow a formula that works out like this:

Max Tow weight = Gross combined weight rating, minus the actual weight of the loaded tow vehicle.

(in other words, every ounce in your tow vehicle subtracts from your tow rating)

Because of this, the actual towing capacity of most vehicles is actually much less than the rated towing capacity. Further, the tongue weight is an afterthought and the axle weights do not receive any attention.

Toyota, on the other hand is stating it much differently, so that the rated towing capacity is still pretty much there for you with a fully loaded tow vehicle. I don't know all cases or even most cases, but this is a pattern in the Toyota cases we've been discussing in this forum.

Today, Toyota defines their towing rules with clarity and detail:
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part1.pdf
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part2.pdf
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part3.pdf

There are different kinds of equipment with associated capacities that can vary widely within a tow vehicle family (for example the max tow capacity for a pickup is likely to be with a fifth wheel hitch). There are specific constraints that always apply (tire loads, hitch loads, speeds, surface area of the front of the towed vehicle, etc). The Toyota towing guide also has a lot a lot of good and useful information for everybody about towing. But, from Toyota, the bottom line in these documents is to not exceed the rated tow capacities and the axle weights. In these documents GCWR is defined, but never used (if I've missed it somewhere, please let me know).

Toyota is saying that if you don't exceed your axle, tire, hitch, tongue, etc. limits, you can tow your rated tow capacity, period. No formulas where you have to subtract the weight of the dog and the spouse from the tow rating appear to exist in Toyota owners manuals or towing instructions.

If there's a late model Toyota owner out there whose owners' manual says otherwise please tell us what it says, because we'd all like to know (but let's get to the real towing instructions, not just the sales brochure, the specifications table or some warning note out of context).
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:38 PM   #25
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The door label says the GVWR is 6,000 lbs
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Old 07-27-2010, 07:03 AM   #26
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You have 1890# of carrying capacity in your Highlander (Gross weight of 6000# pounds, less 4110# curb weight from the Toyota web site). That's a generous number for stuff, even with the heavy tongue weight of a 2720.

Read the Toyota towing guide I posted, and tell me if I missed something important.
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Old 07-27-2010, 08:31 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjackson View Post
The door label says the GVWR is 6,000 lbs
That's good.

My Toyota Tacoma has a GVWR of only 5450#, and with our Elkmont's tongue weight of 420# (with WDH) and all our junk, we exceeded that by 250# on our last trip.

The Tacoma's relatively low GVWR is probably because of its rear drum brakes. My guess is that the Highlander has disk brakes on the rear as well as front axles.

The Tacoma's relatively low GVWR came as surprise to me as its GCWR (11,000#) and towing capacity (6500#) is relatively high and not a problem when towing the Elkmont. http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ad.php?t=10333

Just goes to show that towing capacity isn't everything in selecting a TV.
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Old 07-27-2010, 10:07 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Adventure View Post
Thanks For posting the owners' manual stuff for the Highlander. I was actually hoping that they don't publish Gross Combined Weight Rating anymore, because it fits with the other things Toyota is telling us.

Most car and light truck manufacturers have been providing a rated tow capacity which for some reason includes the payload capacity of the tow vehicle (I'm thinking this is a little deceptive, actually). The effect is to follow a formula that works out like this:

Max Tow weight = Gross combined weight rating, minus the actual weight of the loaded tow vehicle.

(in other words, every ounce in your tow vehicle subtracts from your tow rating)

Because of this, the actual towing capacity of most vehicles is actually much less than the rated towing capacity. Further, the tongue weight is an afterthought and the axle weights do not receive any attention.

Toyota, on the other hand is stating it much differently, so that the rated towing capacity is still pretty much there for you with a fully loaded tow vehicle. I don't know all cases or even most cases, but this is a pattern in the Toyota cases we've been discussing in this forum.

Today, Toyota defines their towing rules with clarity and detail:
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part1.pdf
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part2.pdf
http://www.toyota.com/pdfs/towguide_Part3.pdf

There are different kinds of equipment with associated capacities that can vary widely within a tow vehicle family (for example the max tow capacity for a pickup is likely to be with a fifth wheel hitch). There are specific constraints that always apply (tire loads, hitch loads, speeds, surface area of the front of the towed vehicle, etc). The Toyota towing guide also has a lot a lot of good and useful information for everybody about towing. But, from Toyota, the bottom line in these documents is to not exceed the rated tow capacities and the axle weights. In these documents GCWR is defined, but never used (if I've missed it somewhere, please let me know).

Toyota is saying that if you don't exceed your axle, tire, hitch, tongue, etc. limits, you can tow your rated tow capacity, period. No formulas where you have to subtract the weight of the dog and the spouse from the tow rating appear to exist in Toyota owners manuals or towing instructions.

If there's a late model Toyota owner out there whose owners' manual says otherwise please tell us what it says, because we'd all like to know (but let's get to the real towing instructions, not just the sales brochure, the specifications table or some warning note out of context).
I am not sure I get the point of all this. The fact that Toyota does not issue GCWR tables, but may put a comment in the owner's manual, does not mean they are calculating the weights any different than anyone else. All it means is that their listed towing capacities are specified for their vehicles at gross weight, which is exactly the same as GCWR. If you add extra cargo and your 16 kids to your Highlander and exceed the GVWR of your vehicle, one you risk damaging it, and two you now can tow less. What Toyota does is simply eliminate the total combined weight calculation and assume you are not going to overload the vehicle or tow an overweight trailer.

Either way, the result is the same. Toyota has not come up with anything magical, they just use the numbers differently. And yes, I read all three PDFs carefully.

And has been stated many times before, towing is not the problem when running at gross weight, stopping is. And having towed a 25,000 lb. Ford/toy hauler combo for two years, that is what makes your knuckles white from time to time.
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:07 PM   #29
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Default The point of all this...

I really appreciate your reading through that Toyota towing stuff to help me make sure I didn't miss anything. The reading assignment was really intended for arjackson who has a new Highlander and is thinking about the issues that go with towing a TrailManor. You're right: There's nothing magic in what Toyota is doing, and exactly the same principles apply to Toyotas as other tow vehicles. Like you, I am a happy Trailmanor owner traveling much lighter these days after discovering the hassles and limits of heavier RV's.

The point is that if you tow with a Toyota, you need to be thinking about and applying Toyota's numbers and towing instructions. To the extent they're different from what other manufacturers tell you to do, we need to appreciate that difference in the suggestions we offer to prospective owners. And, we're more than a little curious about what it says to those of us (including me) who have been thinking more in terms of the GCWR formula and haven't taken a real close look lately at how we're doing with our WDH and our axle limits.

In the case of the long and storied history of 14' tire failures on TM's, one wonders if cranking up the WDH to balance the TV axles becomes a contributing factor by pushing the trailer tires into more likely-to-fail load situations.
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