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Old 07-25-2010, 03:21 PM   #11
ShrimpBurrito
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I didn't know about this issue myself, so I consulted my owners manual. Attached is the relevant portion.

My specific vehicle:

GWR = 6,600 (presumably the GVWR, taken from the sticker on the door jamb)
Towing capacity = 6,500 (from the manual)
GCWR = 11,800 (from the manual; this is not the sum of the above 2 numbers; I'm not sure why.)

To me, the stated GCWR seems to imply that adding cargo to the TV does not subtract from the towing capacity.

Dave
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ToyotaManual.pdf (31.1 KB, 242 views)
File Type: pdf ToyotaManual1.pdf (34.5 KB, 234 views)
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:13 PM   #12
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I towed our '08 2619 with the '08 Highlander equiped like yours several times in the Rocky Mtns. I think the weights are pretty similar. Using a WDH, it towed and handled well, with a fairly light load. No water. You definitly need a WDH!!
The only thing I noted was that the braking MAY be an issue in an emergency maneuver. And the wear and tear on a nice vehicle like the Highlander concerned me, so i bought a used Tundra. I guess I'm trying to say that if you watch the loading and take it easy, you can do it and have a lot of fun. Just watch the speeds and don't follow anyone too closely. Just my opinion. Good Luck to ya.........
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:32 PM   #13
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I am by no means an expert on this stuff because the only thing I have every towed in my life is my TrailManor a couple of dozen times. I suppose I may be double booking the tongue weight but the way I calculate makes the most sense to me.

Consider the following for my Tundra:

GCWR=16000
GVWR=7100
Towing Capacity=10300
Actual Weight=5700 (including me and 1/3 of a tank)

So actual weight+towing capacity happened to equal GCWR. (Dave, does your Sequoia weigh 5300 pounds basically?)

I could only tow the full 10300 if the truck was empty and I was the sole passenger. I can add up to 1400 pounds of gas, passengers, cargo, and tongue weight before I get to the 7100 GVWR. When I do, the trailer I tow must be less than 8900 pounds lest I exceed the GCWR.

This means that even though I am now using a "1/2 ton" pickup, there still isn't a lot of margin out there. I don't have actuals for tongue weight but if it comes in at 600 pounds, the passengers and all of the cargo in the truck bed need to weigh in at less than 800 pounds. This isn't an issue for me given the size of my 3 passengers and what we load into the truck bed (12g blackwater dolly, ice chests, and other misc) but is something to watch.

One of these days I plan on getting an updated set of weight data since the truck now has a heavy metal tonneau cover and the trailer has been getting more supplies packed in it and other upgrades added to it as well. The TV and TM are probably each 100 pounds heavier than when I weighed them last. When I do, I will have tongue weight actuals and can update the analysis.

Comparing all of these variables is why I concluded our Sienna to be untenable. Here are its stats:

GCWR=8700
GVWR=5690
Towing Capacity=3500
Actual Weight=4140* (can't remember if this is computed or direct weighing)

Assuming the TM weighs in at 3500 (which it won't unless you work at it) and a 4140 pound Sienna, I had only 1000 pounds to cover all of the occupants, cargo, and tongue weight. The 3500 tow limit didn't give me any room to put cargo in the TM. I ultimately removed seats from the TV and cabinets from the TM to get all numbers within their limits. Even then though, there was a qualitative feeling that the Sienna was being over taxed.
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito View Post
I didn't know about this issue myself, so I consulted my owners manual. Attached is the relevant portion.

My specific vehicle:

GWR = 6,600 (presumably the GVWR, taken from the sticker on the door jamb)
Towing capacity = 6,500 (from the manual)
GCWR = 11,800 (from the manual; this is not the sum of the above 2 numbers; I'm not sure why.)

To me, the stated GCWR seems to imply that adding cargo to the TV does not subtract from the towing capacity.

Dave
Dave, the GWR is the max weight that the vehicle itself can handle towing or not towing but including the trailer TW when towing.

The towing capacity is the maximum amount that the TV can tow without exceeding the GCWR...In other-words, when towing the max tow rating (6500# in this case), the TV can handle a max of 5300# (incl trailer TW). There are other ratings that must not be exceeded also.

Ratings must always be considered individually for each circumstance when towing. It's important that ALL ratings be considered. One cannot pick & choose which rating to ignore.

If this vehicle were towing my TM @ 4,000#, the TV would have a capacity of maximizing the TV's payload as long as no other ratings (tires, axles, wheels etc) were exceeded.
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Hokie View Post
(Dave, does your Sequoia weigh 5300 pounds basically?)
I'm not sure what the dry weight is, but on our recent trip, we did get weighed, and the Sequoia by itself (trailer detached) was 5,980. That included 1 person, a 50 lb dog, the 3rd row of seats removed (which removed 110 lbs), and the cargo area fairly well loaded, but not packed to the brim. That's a fair amount below the GVWR of 6,600, but once the trailer was reattached and I got back in the TV, I'm sure we were right at the limit.

As stated in the first PDF I attached, the "cargo capacity" limit, i.e. occupants, cargo, tongue weight, etc., is 1,250 lbs. I don't know if this is an accurate assumption, but my guess is GVWR - cargo limit = dry weight, which is 5,350, the number you came up with.

Dave
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Old 07-25-2010, 04:55 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harveyrv View Post
The towing capacity is the maximum amount that the TV can tow without exceeding the GCWR...In other-words, when towing the max tow rating (6500# in this case), the TV can handle a max of 5300# (incl trailer TW). There are other ratings that must not be exceeded also.
Ah, so I stand corrected. Adding weight to the TV does take away from the overall towing capacity of my Sequoia.

From our weight readings, we are mostly within the overall weight limits, but not by much. With the trailer attached, the Sequoia full of fuel, and the TM full of fresh water and toilet charged, this is what we weighed:

Sequoia axles: 6,440
TM axle: 3,780 (which I know is slightly above the Dexter axle rating)

GCWR: 10,220

Dave
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:17 PM   #17
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This thread contains variations of definitions for towing ratings. May I suggest:

Weight Rating Definitions
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito View Post
snip
Sequoia axles: 6,440
TM axle: 3,780 (which I know is slightly above the Dexter axle rating)

GCWR: 10,220

Dave
The total is not your GCWR, it is your actual combined weight. See post above for definitions. The GCWR for your vehicle is located in your owner's manual, on the door label, or both.
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Old 07-25-2010, 05:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterP View Post
The total is not your GCWR, it is your actual combined weight. See post above for definitions.
Yea, I realize that....that's what I was thinking in my mind, but as you pointed out, I erred in using that terminology here. There are too many acronyms in this weight business stuff.

Thanks for point it out.

Dave
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Old 07-25-2010, 06:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito View Post
Ah, so I stand corrected. Adding weight to the TV does take away from the overall towing capacity of my Sequoia.

From our weight readings, we are mostly within the overall weight limits, but not by much. With the trailer attached, the Sequoia full of fuel, and the TM full of fresh water and toilet charged, this is what we weighed:

Sequoia axles: 6,440
TM axle: 3,780 (which I know is slightly above the Dexter axle rating)

GCWR: 10,220

Dave
There are a few more things that you need to condsider. If you use a WDH, that takes ~150# off the rear of the TV and puts it back on the trailer axle.

The other consideration is your front and rear axle ratings and your tires. I don't think it's an issue but one should check.

I'm a ~little surprised that the Sequoia has a 6500# tow rating. I had thought that is was more like 5,000# (not sure why I thought that). That seems like a great TV for the TM. The GCWR (12,000#) on my 1/2-ton Chevy truck is about the same as your Sequoia. My tow rating is actually the same (W/O WDH). Considering your lighter dry weight (I assume) you should have a better cargo and passenger capacity than I do. The only advantage on my truck is the 157" WB.....
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