New Truck!

We got a new truck this summer, replacing our 2009 Toyota Tacoma 4x4.

The Tacoma was a good reliable truck, but we always ran 350-500# over its GVWR. The problem was our Elkmont's unexpectedly high tongue weight (consistently 620#), our cap, kayak racks and kayaks (~350#?) and the Tacoma's payload (1100#). I was usually able to adjust the WDH so all axles were under their GAWR, but never got under the truck's GVWR. The Tacoma's 6500# tow capacity and GCWR were never a problem with the Elkmont.

So when we decided to look for another truck, our first priority was a higher payload, but we didn't want to sacrifice the Tacoma's reasonable fuel economy.

Our second priority was a built-in brake controller. The Prodigy P2 I used in the Tacoma was an aftermarket add-on that could not correct for the truck's speed. No aftermarket can AFAIK. So, when coming in for gas, the trailer brakes would lock up unless I turned down the brake controller. And then I had to remember to turn it back up when going back on the highway again. Often I didn't, and we had one emergency stop where the trailer pushed the truck forward dangerously because of my forgetting to re-adjust. The built-in brake controller used by Ford (and other pickup truck manufacturers) automatically corrects for speed. You set the controller and forget it.

A third priority was more low-end torque but again without sacrificing the Tacoma's fuel economy. The Tacoma had enough oomph but it all came at high rpms, meaning frequent downshifts and a fair amount of noise and "busyness" when towing. Also the Tacoma's 5spd tranny did not have a tow mode, so we were frequently towing with the torque convertor unlocked somewhere between 4th and 5th, and I would often force it into 4th to keep the tranny from over-heating (not sure if that was necessary, but it worried me).

The obvious high-torque, good mileage alternative would be a light-weight diesel, like the V6 turbo diesels used in the big German SUVs. But no N.A. pickup exists with one, and the big V8 diesels (and the truck models they come in) were way overkill and too expensive. I was sorely tempted by a used VW Touareg SUV, but even used they were too expensive/luxurious, and being rare who could fix them in the backwoods? And with their unibody construction, they are not built for a WDH (the Touareg manual explicitly says not to use one), have no built in brake controller, and probably not enough payload (could never get an answer to that).

Another alternative would be one of the modern V8 trucks with good gas mileage.

What we ended up buying is a 2011 Ford F150 4x2 (FX2 model) with the 3.5L Ecoboost V6 bi-turbo engine and MaxTow package which includes the built in brake controller and 3.73 non-slip differential gearing. We also got the built-in, extendable, trailer ("dumbo") mirrors (which I like a lot) and the backup camera (which the Tacoma also had, and I like a lot).

The truck's payload is 2027# (a ton, almost twice that of the Tacoma) and the tow capacity is enormous. Because of the turbos, the 3.5L V6 engine has almost as much low-end torque as the V6 Diesels in the German SUVs, but not as good fuel economy. But it has proven to be as economical as our Tacoma. We get about 12mpgUS towing the Elkmont with either truck. The Ecoboost also has better low-end torque (<3000rpm) than most gas V8s on the market with similar or better fuel economy.

The F150's transmission is a 6spd with tow mode. Whenever it's in tow mode it does not unlock the torque convertor except when shifting to another gear (the truck also has a tran temp guage). The tranny also downshifts automatically in tow mode when you brake, or when using cruise control. I rarely had to brake coming down long Appalachian slopes. With the Ecoboost's low end torque, the tranny usually sits in 6th gear when highway cruising but occasionally uses 5th (another overdrive) especially in tow mode as the shift points are adjusted.

So, compared to the Tacoma, there is very little shifting going on. But even when there is, the F150 is very, very quiet. Apparently Ford and other truck manufacturers have been putting a lot of effort into noise control recently. Overall, the F150 is much more relaxing to drive than the Tacoma.

The size of the truck relative to the Tacoma has its pros and cons. The interior is very spacious, even though we didn't get the full Crew Cab. And what I really appreciate is not having to jack-knife my self to get into the cab. However the truck will not fit into our underground condo parking spot, so we lose that flexibility. Overall we're willing to deal with it.

But what really sold the truck was the $12,000 manufacturer's discount off list.

[Bill]

Brulaz -

I saw the intro hype on this vehicle a few months ago, and there is no doubt that with the demise of the "real" Ford Explorer with the 2011 model, this will be my next vehicle. Everything I have read, I love. The transmission improvement via the addition of a tow/haul mode should be a great thing, and should greatly extend the life of the tranny. And by the way, the turbo should do more than generate more power from a smaller engine. At high altitude, it should make the engine think that it is actually at sea level!

The rule of thumb says that an engine loses about 3% of its horsepower for every thousand feet of altitude, simply because there is not enough air to run it right. In other words, at 10,000 feet, the engine will have about 30% less power than it does at sea level (where all the measurements are made, of course). A turbo should fix this - the boost from the turbo should restore sea-level air pressure at the engine inlet, and therefore restore sea-level performance. For years, I have been asking the aftermarket turbo people about this, and they laughed at me. "Sounds like a good idea", they said, but their turbochargers and superchargers are for use on the track - a quick burst of power. Finally, Ford figured it out for trailer towing.

I expect to hear great stories about your rig.

Bill

[T and C]

Originally Posted by brulaz

We got a new truck this summer, replacing our 2009 Toyota Tacoma 4x4.

The Tacoma was a good reliable truck, but we always ran 350-500# over its GVWR. The problem was our Elkmont's unexpectedly high tongue weight (consistently 620#), our cap, kayak racks and kayaks (~350#?) and the Tacoma's payload (1100#). I was usually able to adjust the WDH so all axles were under their GAWR, but never got under the truck's GVWR. The Tacoma's 6500# tow capacity and GCWR were never a problem with the Elkmont.

So when we decided to look for another truck, our first priority was a higher payload, but we didn't want to sacrifice the Tacoma's reasonable fuel economy.

Our second priority was a built-in brake controller. The Prodigy P2 I used in the Tacoma was an aftermarket add-on that could not correct for the truck's speed. No aftermarket can AFAIK. So, when coming in for gas, the trailer brakes would lock up unless I turned down the brake controller. And then I had to remember to turn it back up when going back on the highway again. Often I didn't, and we had one emergency stop where the trailer pushed the truck forward dangerously because of my forgetting to re-adjust. The built-in brake controller used by Ford (and other pickup truck manufacturers) automatically corrects for speed. You set the controller and forget it.

A third priority was more low-end torque but again without sacrificing the Tacoma's fuel economy. The Tacoma had enough oomph but it all came at high rpms, meaning frequent downshifts and a fair amount of noise and "busyness" when towing. Also the Tacoma's 5spd tranny did not have a tow mode, so we were frequently towing with the torque convertor unlocked somewhere between 4th and 5th, and I would often force it into 4th to keep the tranny from over-heating (not sure if that was necessary, but it worried me).

The obvious high-torque, good mileage alternative would be a light-weight diesel, like the V6 turbo diesels used in the big German SUVs. But no N.A. pickup exists with one, and the big V8 diesels (and the truck models they come in) were way overkill and too expensive. I was sorely tempted by a used VW Touareg SUV, but even used they were too expensive/luxurious, and being rare who could fix them in the backwoods? And with their unibody construction, they are not built for a WDH (the Touareg manual explicitly says not to use one), have no built in brake controller, and probably not enough payload (could never get an answer to that).

Another alternative would be one of the modern V8 trucks with good gas mileage.

What we ended up buying is a 2011 Ford F150 4x2 (FX2 model) with the 3.5L Ecoboost V6 bi-turbo engine and MaxTow package which includes the built in brake controller and 3.73 non-slip differential gearing. We also got the built-in, extendable, trailer ("dumbo") mirrors (which I like a lot) and the backup camera (which the Tacoma also had, and I like a lot).

The truck's payload is 2027# (a ton, almost twice that of the Tacoma) and the tow capacity is enormous. Because of the turbos, the 3.5L V6 engine has almost as much low-end torque as the V6 Diesels in the German SUVs, but not as good fuel economy. But it has proven to be as economical as our Tacoma. We get about 12mpgUS towing the Elkmont with either truck. The Ecoboost also has better low-end torque (<3000rpm) than most gas V8s on the market with similar or better fuel economy.

The F150's transmission is a 6spd with tow mode. Whenever it's in tow mode it does not unlock the torque convertor except when shifting to another gear (the truck also has a tran temp guage). The tranny also downshifts automatically in tow mode when you brake, or when using cruise control. I rarely had to brake coming down long Appalachian slopes. With the Ecoboost's low end torque, the tranny usually sits in 6th gear when highway cruising but occasionally uses 5th (another overdrive) especially in tow mode as the shift points are adjusted.

So, compared to the Tacoma, there is very little shifting going on. But even when there is, the F150 is very, very quiet. Apparently Ford and other truck manufacturers have been putting a lot of effort into noise control recently. Overall, the F150 is much more relaxing to drive than the Tacoma.

The size of the truck relative to the Tacoma has its pros and cons. The interior is very spacious, even though we didn't get the full Crew Cab. And what I really appreciate is not having to jack-knife my self to get into the cab. However the truck will not fit into our underground condo parking spot, so we lose that flexibility. Overall we're willing to deal with it.

But what really sold the truck was the $12,000 manufacturer's discount off list.

Bruce,

I love my 2010 F-150 crew cab. I also have the six speed with tow/haul mode. I think that when you turn on the tow/haul feature it automatically kicks it down into 5th gear, so that it is a 5 speed in that mode. I have noticed that if you are cruising along in 6th and push the tow/haul button the tachometer kicks up a couple of hundred rpm immediately. Give it a try and tell me what you think.

You are quite correct about the size of the things. It is great on the road, towing or not. But when you are in a parking lot it is a bear. The problem is visibility. I almost always have to back up some after pulling into a parking space to make sure I got it between the lines.

I have the 4.6 3 valve V8 that they offered in 2010. On my trip to the Pismo Beach TM rally and back I got 16.8 according to the truck's computer. I drive at 55-60 when towing. The highway to Pismo is pretty level, not many hills. I figure that the better gas milage is probably due to the lack of wind drag on my 3023.

Tom

[scrubjaysnest]

That is a nice truck Bruce. Its tow/haul feature is a little different than our Dodge. When you put it in tow the Dodge disable one over drive. When you put it in haul it disable all over drives and rpm jumps from about 1800 rpm on flat land and 60mph with the TM attached to about 2500 rpm.

Sounds like Ford may have a better idea

Originally Posted by Bill

And by the way, the turbo should do more than generate more power from a smaller engine. At high altitude, it should make the engine think that it is actually at sea level!

Yes, there are several people from Colorado on the F150 forum I visit who really like that aspect. And they say it works as you predict at high elevations.

One of the reasons I jumped on the turbo gas engine is because we already had a Turbo Diesel VW Passat which has great low-end torque. But it only has a single turbo which kicks in around 1200 rpm. The Ecoboost (and some newer German diesels) has a bi-turbo design with a small turbo for low rpm and bigger one for latter. This removes the turbo lag and improves low-end torque.

When we were in Colorado at Rocky Mountain National Park with our Passat towing the old tent trailer, there were times when the car would barely move until 1200rpm was reached. And then it would roar off. Scary really, especially when trying to merge into traffic.

Apparently the bi-turbo arrangement of the Ecoboost takes care of this.

Originally Posted by T and C

I also have the six speed with tow/haul mode. I think that when you turn on the tow/haul feature it automatically kicks it down into 5th gear, so that it is a 5 speed in that mode. I have noticed that if you are cruising along in 6th and push the tow/haul button the tachometer kicks up a couple of hundred rpm immediately. Give it a try and tell me what you think.

This doesn't seem to be the case in 2011. You can set the display to highlight the gear you are in. And it's usually in 6 cruising in tow/haul mode, occasional shifting to 5. When you are not in tow/haul, instead of shifting to 5, the indicator remains on 6 but the rpms jump when going up a slight hill. This indicates to me that the torque converter has unlocked somewhere between 6 and 5 just like my old Tacoma did.

I also do not get that rpm blip when putting it in tow/haul AFAIK.

Of course the shift indicator may be lying ...

You can also manually select gears, or lock out a range of upper gears. The transmission I have is called a "Selectshift Automatic" and only comes with one of the towing packages. Maybe it's something new in 2011?

Originally Posted by scrubjaysnest

That is a nice truck Bruce. Its tow/haul feature is a little different than our Dodge. When you put it in tow the Dodge disable one over drive. When you put it in haul it disable all over drives and rpm jumps from about 1800 rpm on flat land and 60mph with the TM attached to about 2500 rpm.

We've just arrived in your area today. Fort Clinch State Park. We came down from Beaufort S.C. on I-95. Pretty flat stretch. I put the tranny in Tow/Haul, but I don't think it ever left 6th gear.

Rumour has it that Ford is developing or planning an 8 spd electronic tranny. I know the one in the VW Touareg SUV mated to their V6 diesel is supposed to be really smooth.

These new vehicles are truly amazing. But only time will tell how well they hold up.

[T and C]

Brulaz,

I also do not get that rpm blip when putting it in tow/haul AFAIK.

AFAIK?????

Tom

AFAIK = As far as I know.

Sorry, something I picked up from my daughter.

Anyway, I don't recall the rpm blip happening, and I have turned on the tow/haul mode after getting on the highway. But I haven't had a chance to directly double-check it.

I own 2 GM trucks with almost identical specifications.

The 2008 GMC 2500HD long bed crew cab has stiffer suspension than the 2002 Chevy 1500HD short bed crew cab. the difference was not noticeable until I loaded either a pair of motorcycles or an ATV in the back of the truck.

I have a Prodigy in the Chevy and the IBC in the GMC. I like the IBC a lot better.

Bot trucks get essentially the same gas mileage.

16 mpg running empty on the freeway at 65 mph.

13 mpg around town.

10-12 towing, with a full load in the back of the truck.

The GMC does a lot less bouncing at the hitch (porpoising) than the Chevy. I attribute that to the longer wheel base.

According to kbb.com, my truck is still worth $1,000 more than I paid for it new in the fall of 2008. I bought new when GM had employee pricing for all.

A long bed crew cab truck is not a good choice for Christmas shopping at the mall.

I am glad that I have 4wd in both trucks. Where I go it is sometimes mandatory.

We usually take both trucks. I have too much stuff for one.

When we bought I looked a Dodge and Ford. But they only had diesels and I wanted gas. I only drive the GMC 5,000 miles per year. A diesel would be overkill for my application.