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  #1  
Old 08-27-2019, 06:26 PM
isotherm isotherm is offline
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Default TM 2417 Sport, TM 2619, or TM 2619 Sport?

We've decided we want a TrailManor. We had a 16' Scamp and liked it, but the family is growing: 3 young children, currently. Everyone seemed to recommend a popup for more space, so we tried a lightweight tent camper (Livin' Lite), but the setup time and effort is too much, and there's no potential to set up on the roadside if necessary (meal, rest stop). I've tried a TrailManor locally and like the quick setup and the space. So, here we are.

But the question is, which model? We are towing with a 2012 Honda Odyssey, equipped with tow package and Prodigy brake controller. I am getting rear airbags installed to help with the sag. I set up a spreadsheet to check GVWR, both GAWR, and GCVW for various configurations of passengers, weights, etc. The summary seems to be that we could handle up to a 3100# trailer with up to 5 children, even as they grow older.

The current best seems to be a 2417, especially Sport. Considerations:
  • + For now, all of the children can sleep on the king bed.
  • + Later, the dinette could be converted for additional room.
  • + We like the cassette toilet better than the recirculating.
  • + The Sport model is narrower (better visibility in mirrors), and lighter.
  • + It is the lightest weight available: seems like ~2450# dry with options (A/C, bathroom).
  • + Has the outside storage for easy access to cords, hose, etc.
  • - Current inventory is at far away dealerships (at least 14-24 hour drive). Otherwise, wait.
  • - More expensive, $10k-$14k (understandable, since there are no older models).
  • - The equipment (refrigerator, hot water heater) isn't as big as the larger models.

Runner up is a 2619, the next lightest that is commonly available. Considerations:
  • + Has refrigerator with freezer, larger stove, oven, etc.
  • + Has enough sleeping room for now, if the dinette is converted.
  • + Has larger bathroom area with tub (good for baths for children).
  • + Nearby, only 4 hours away. Seems like a more common model.
  • + Economical, $6k-$7k.
  • - Would likely want recirculating toilet replaced with cassette.
  • - Not much room for expansion, as children couldn't sleep sideways in the double bed.
  • - The dry weight on the sticker is right under 3000#. I feel this could be pushing it?

Wildcard is a 2619 Sport. Considerations:
  • + Has refrigerator with freezer, larger stove, oven, etc.
  • + Has plenty of room to both sleep and dine up to 8, or sleep 6 without converting one of the dinettes.
  • + Dry weight is sure to be lower than 2619, but not sure how much. (I haven't heard a weight from the sticker yet.) Based on some archived literature, my guess is 300# lighter, or about 2700#.
  • + Very economical, $4k-$6k.
  • - Seem very uncommon. Medium distance away.
  • - No bathroom. Would try to add cassette toilet next to wall A/C...
  • - Resale ability/value seems poor without the bathroom.

I am hoping for suggestions, recommendations, or any other input. I imagine others with minivans have gone through this sort of decision process, and I would greatly appreciate advice. We hope to make a good selection and keep it at least until the kids are moved out.

Last edited by isotherm; 08-27-2019 at 06:41 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:48 PM
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Kidkraz Kidkraz is online now
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Welcome to the forum. Iím not sure a 2619 sport was ever made. The sport versions are narrower than a non sport TM. If my brain/memory is correct here, some 2417 sport versions didnít have a bathroom. I looked at a 2417 sport and found it way too tight for my needs/wants. Walking thru it cemented my decision to get the 2619. I would have jumped at a 2720, but had to consider fitting it in my driveway for storage.
Good luck with yer search.
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:57 AM
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Bill Bill is offline
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Not meaning to hijack the thread, but "getting rear airbags installed to help with the sag" is really not a good idea. You can find more on this topic in this tutorial in the TM Technical Library

https://www.trailmanorowners.com/for...ead.php?t=2616

or simply by using the Forum Search tool on the topic of air bags.

A condensed version of the reasoning is that adding a lot of hitch weight to the rear of a tow vehicle lifts a substantial amount of weight off the front end. (Think of a child's teeter-totter, with the vehicle's rear axle as the pivot point.) And since most of a vehicle's braking, and all of its steering, happen at the vehicle's front end, decreasing its grip on the pavement is a bad idea.

Rear end sag is simply a symptom, not the problem, and curing the symptom does not cure the problem. It is kind of like buying cough syrup when you have double pneumonia. You'll cough less, but you still have a very serious problem.

There are other issues worth some thought as well. If you simply drop some weight onto the rear end of the vehicle, add 3 kids and all their stuff, and load up the wayback (cargo area) of the vehicle, all of that extra weight is borne by the rear suspension - springs, bearings, shocks, tires, etc. And the rear suspension may not be designed to handle it. If you open the driver's door and look at the sticker glued to the door frame, you will find something called GAWR-R (gross axle weight rating - rear), which tells you the maximum total weight that the rear axle can carry. Even with a lighter model of a TM, the hitch weight will be around 350-400 pounds. If you add that, plus the weight of those 3 kids, all their stuff, and a lot of cargo in the way-back, it is almost certain that you will exceed the GAWR. When you have added the bags, as you plan to do, I urge you to go to a CAT scale, pay about $9, and get a printout of the individual weights on the 3 axles. You will be surprised.

The proper solution is a weight-distributing hitch (WDH), and there is a lot of discussion about them on this Forum.

It is worth pointing out that many of our members tow their TM with an Odyssey, and many report good results. You will hear their thoughts here.

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Old 08-28-2019, 07:31 AM
Marklee Marklee is offline
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Coincidence: We upgraded from a Scamp 13' to a Scamp 16' and now to the grown up light weight trailer: A TM 2417. Actually, for our retirement.

We love the 2417. The bathroom is just right for us, and we also love the cassette toilet.

That being said- the refrigerator is so small as to be almost a waste of space. Have to carry an ice chest as well. There's also very little storage space inside the trailer. There are just 2 of us, so we use the double bed for our clothes and etc. Without that, it might be a pain in the neck.

But the weight is good, it tows very well- steady and stable. We have a hitch distribution system, and that is really good too. The whole thing tows much better than the Scamp, believe it or not!

So good luck to you and your family. I hope you
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Old 08-28-2019, 01:52 PM
isotherm isotherm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidkraz View Post
Iím not sure a 2619 sport was ever made.
They made them for just a couple years, I think, around 2005. Instead of the bathroom and wardrobe, they had another convertible dinette (so the floorplan is sort of symmetrical). I saw someone had a post here about adding a bathroom to one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Not meaning to hijack the thread, but "getting rear airbags installed to help with the sag" is really not a good idea. . . .
No problem. This is the sort of input I'm looking for. The Scamp 16' also caused the problem with handling of the front tires, so I definitely want to avoid that again. I planned airbags due to a couple factors: manual recommends against WDH; and I saw several here with minivans say they put in airbags only. But after I read that link and also watched some explanatory videos, it makes sense that it won't help with the front axle lift at all. Thanks to your input, I returned the airbags (not installed yet) and will look at getting the Andersen WDH installed and adjusted near where I pick up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marklee View Post
That being said- the refrigerator is so small as to be almost a waste of space. Have to carry an ice chest as well. There's also very little storage space inside the trailer. There are just 2 of us, so we use the double bed for our clothes and etc. Without that, it might be a pain in the neck.
It is good to hear this input, considering there are 5 of us. I saw some videos of a family of 4 that takes trips in one. Storage did look like a concern (they appeared to roll clothes and other items into shoe organizers). We didn't pack much into our Scamps, but the tightness could still be a concern. We could perhaps use the back of the van for additional storage, but it sounds like a 2514 may just be too small for a growing family...
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Old 09-26-2019, 01:42 PM
LoveToCamp LoveToCamp is offline
 
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We initially had the 2417 Sport, as that was all that was made the first year. It had two beds, dinette, and wet bath.

Normally just the wife and I using it. It was narrow, and a bit tight when I was doing dishes and she wanted to get to the drawers beyond me. Had plenty of storage, even with the water tank under one dinette bench.

Used the trailer for hunting trips with 4 adults, a couple times a year. Yes, we all were inside, but it was tight. Most had to stay seated while the 4th dealt with his luggage, or me doing dishes.

Then, TM came out with the 2417KD Standard, and we jumped on it. Didn't need the second bed, so the dinette allowed for sufficient seating for 4, and still have open floor space. Also, being wider, was much easier to move around in. As for seeing behind while towing, that is what the extenders are for tow vehicles. After trying many, I have found the CIBA mirror extenders to be fantastic, and a good price.

Anyway, on the Standard, they moved the water tank to the rear storage area, so there is more under-bench storage. Still lots of room in the rear for storage, too. We loved the 2417KD, as it suited almost all of our needs.

Got rid of it when I decided I wanted to do more winter camping. With the water tank in back, it was more prone to freezing. However, it never did freeze, as I ran hot water into it (from the outside shower), and it stayed liquid. Having upsized to SOB, I miss my TM, and (hindsight being what it is), think I could have stayed with it, and been fine.

Yes, the small 'fridge won't be sufficient for a family, but maybe just keep beverages and snacks in there. There are tradeoffs for every decision.

Good luck! (I also don't believe there was a 2619 Sport built.) For a family, I would not go with the Sport, but the Standard (maybe they called it "Classic" at the time), as the added floor space does make a difference.
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