2023 2518 kd - Page 2

Twinkee75 · 01-27-2023, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Are these towing setups safe? Does tow rating mean something different for EVs than it does for a gas/diesel vehicle? Will this seemingly-excess weight damage the Tesla after while?

I, as you know, am not the expert by a very, very long stretch. But...I think that video was just to show he can do it. I would be interested in knowing what the tongue weight was on that set up. I definitely wouldn't want to try it myself. Teslas have an amazing amount of torque and if balanced right, it could tow it, but given how heavy it is, the range was probably terrible. I don't think it would necessarily "damage" anything as there are no moving parts on a Tesla and as long as you are balanced I suppose it could work.... although very, very inefficiently. Like having an English Bulldog pull a snow sled. They CAN, but not far.

Regarding tow rating. I will say the quick answer is no. Mine is an SUV that was built, stock, with a receiver for towing a maximum of 3500 lbs. That car in the video does not exceed my rating. I know that for certain.

**Bill** · 01-27-2023, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane826

Yeah I’d like to know who used a drop hitch as a reason weasel their way out of paying, too. That’s just shady.

Not to beat a dead horse, but it makes me wonder about the insurance aspects of towing a 7000-pound trailer with a tow vehicle rated at 3500 pounds. At very least, I would notify my insurance company in writing that I am towing a model XXX trailer with a model YYY tow vehicle. if there is a problem, it is most likely up to their underwriters to flag it.

And take the time to read the "We do not cover ..." section of your policies. You can bet that the word "misuse" appears in there somewhere.

Bill

Shane826 · 01-27-2023, 04:18 PM

Yeah Bill I agree with that, too. I’ve heard of insurance companies declining coverage when towing above limits, whether it be payload or tow rating. And I can’t say I blame them there. But any time you mention that to someone who brags about towing above limits they get all defensive about naw that’s just a myth. Let’s just say I don’t want to find out if it’s a myth or not the hard way.

**Bill** · 01-27-2023, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinkee75

I think that video was just to show he can do it..

You are probably right. I don't mean to be a Debbi Downer here, but I think some folks will go out and do it because "the video said it will work".

Quote:

I would be interested in knowing what the tongue weight was on that set up

Just for general information, the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight. The issue is sway - if tongue weight is less than 10%, then sway is likely. TrailManors are built with a tongue weight of 14% just for that reason.

Bill

Twinkee75 · 01-27-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

You are probably right. I don't mean to be a Debbi Downer here, but I think some folks will go out and do it because "the video said it will work".

Just for general information, the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight. The issue is sway - if tongue weight is less than 10%, then sway is likely. TrailManors are built with a tongue weight of 14% just for that reason.

Bill

Thanks for the math, Bill! I don't think you're a Downer. I agree with you that videos like that don't disclose appropriately that the equipment usage in that manner was done by professional and should not be recommended (or fantasized for a lack of a better term) to the casual consumer. Disclaimers are very important and it should have said he was exceeding the recommendation for the TV, with or without the WDH.

What I did like about the video was not so much the Tesla, just the examples of how to measure and set up a WDH. I did find that informative.

Wavery · 01-30-2023, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

With great respect, may I ask the name of your insurance company? Did they give you notice of any kind that this would be a non-reimbursable situation? It probably would have been buried deep in the verbiage of the policy in a section called "We do not cover ..." or similar. But given that you were doing everything well within the advertised ratings of the equipment involved, it should have been there.

Bill

I have State Farm. I thought that I was within limits of equipment being used. However, the 9" (State Farm called it 6") drop bar (rated at 6K#) reduces the rating of the factory trailer hitch by 50%. They also stated that (due to noticeable rust) the hitch suffered from a lack of owner's maintenance. That was a bunch of crap and I would have fought it because it was just surface rust that may be seen on a brand new vehicle after the 1st rain. However, they were right about the drop bar reducing the hitch rating.

**Bill** · 01-30-2023, 11:40 AM

Wavery -

Not that it is any of my business, but I think you were hosed. I think that the State Farm rep was confusing (intentionally or not) a "hitch extender" with a "drop hitch". It seems to be widely accepted that a hitch extender reduces the weight rating of the hitch receiver by 50%. But I have never seen any thought that a drop hitch will do so. We have had at least one discussion of extenders here on the Forum, and E-trailer has several discussion, one at

https://www.etrailer.com/question-148566.html

I will tell you that I bought the #80232 long-shank hitch shown in that E-trailer discussion, and although the E-trailer Expert at

https://www.etrailer.com/question-547625.html

explicitly says that it does not reduce the weight capacity of a hitch like a hitch extender does, the idea of it scared me so badly that I discarded it. Anyone want it free? It is still on the floor of my garage, hardly used. Come get it.

Just my thoughts. They are worth what you paid for them.

Bill

Wavery · 01-30-2023, 02:10 PM

Maybe this will help:

**Bill** · 02-01-2023, 10:47 AM

Wavery -

The diagrams helped a lot. Thanks for taking the time to prepare them. They made me realize that you and I have been talking about entirely different things.

You are talking about the fore-and-aft forces on the hitch receiver that result from starting or stopping the rig. With a drop hitch, these forces produce the leverage you described, and the problem you described. I had not considered the forces in this fore-and-aft direction. Hitch weight is not a factor here.

I have been thinking of the up-and-down forces on the hitch receiver, which are related to hitch weight. And in fact, the E-trailer discussions that I linked earlier are all related to hitch weight. Fore-and-aft force is not a factor here.

You've given me a new perspective, and I will have to think about it for a while. Thanks for doing so.

Bill.

**Bill** · 02-14-2023, 02:21 PM

Just a quick add to my post #14 above, regarding hitch weight as a percentage of total trailer weight. In that post, I said
"... the widely agreed number for tongue weight is 10%-15% of the loaded trailer weight.".
That is the number on every trailer web page I've ever seen.

Today I noticed that the Tesla web site

https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/m...E27E3B4D8.html

says

"The tongue weight is the downward force that the weight of the trailer exerts on the hitch. It must be at least 4% of the total trailer load."

Four per cent! I've never heard a number anywhere near that low. But it would explain why the Tesla-and-Airstream videos seem to say it is OK to run with such a low hitch weight. Is it really OK?

Even the Airstream web site, at

https://support.airstream.com/hc/en-...on-hitches-101 says

"...the proper tongue weight of the loaded trailer should be ... 10-15 percent of the loaded total".

So I am not sure why Tesla thinks that 4% is OK. Maybe there is something different about Teslas. Or maybe it is just hype. I personally wouldn't come anywhere near doing it - but that's just me.

Bill