Love my TM, so do mice.

[Mr. Adventure]

If you poison the mice, how do you prevent your dogs or other scavengers from eating the dead or dying mice?

Most of the mice have left and gone elsewhere. The minority still aboard have so far been in their nests, where they were dessicated, not terribly smelly, and conveniently surrounded by all the toilet paper and paper towels they chewed up to build the nest. From there, they typically go into the shop vac. The dog and Ms. Adventure are obviously not allowed in the trailer at the first sign of Mouse Activity Detected (MAD).

I'm careful to keep the mouse blocks away from the dog, by placing them where the dog can't get to them (the power cord compartment, under the sink, under the seat of the couch, behind the drawers, etc.). The poisoned mouse, if outside, is going to be carrying a mouse-lethal dose. But the mouse predator will be a larger animal. So if one of Bridgett's rats weighs 5 times as much as the mouse, for example, it would only receive 20% of a lethal dose from eating the poisoned mouse. A small cat, dog or Opossum would be tens, or hundreds of times the weight of the mouse, and therefore only get a very small fraction of a lethal dose from eating a single mouse. The mice in even a large infestation are going to die over several days, so hopefully even the wild predators will have their exposures to multiple doses spread out over several days. A properly poisoned TrailManor should only be killing a mouse as the little buggers find their way in every month or so, once you've already handled all the mice from the other RV's in the storage yard.

These poisons work as anticoagulants (at least, that's what Warfarin does, a drug also commonly prescribed in people for preventing blood clots). Hopefully we'd see our pets with the mice (best case), or not feeling well (next best case) and get them help if they needed it.

I had the same problem in a very big way several years ago. I mentioned it on the site and got several suggestions. Taking all the suggestions into consideration, I moved the TM onto the paved driveway, caulked around the gas line to the furnace at the point of entry under the sofa; it did cut down on the number of visitors over the winter/early spring but did not eliminate them. This summer between trips I had some visitors nesting under the sink where the electrical wiring goes into the floor. They seem to get into this space and can travel anywhere inside the TM. I did some more investigation and found the screening below the refrigerator had been eaten thru. I replaced this with metal screening. I try and make sure that I do not leave the power cord plugged in as I believe they can travel up the line and actually fit into any small opening even with the flap shut, since I have also seen one run from the storage area (outside back) thru the cutout to the power cord storage area. I have tried to leave the TM in the setup position since my hope is that if we enter it periodically, that may be enough to scare them out of there. But with the north/east winter snow and ice, I don’t know if this is a wise choice. I hope I may have given you some more access areas to check on your unit. My greatest concern with this problem is not only the disease these guys bring but the fact that they love to chew on all sorts of stuff, even electrical wiring.

Is that the LD-50 (lethal dose for 50% of test animals) is not necessarily directly correlated with the weight of the animal...something poisonous to one species may be more or less poisonous to another species, and may act in different ways. I found this reference to poisonings of family pets by rodenticides on the internet, although it is just one article, I have always chosen to follow the path of greatest caution. I just remembered that a boxer we knew in Costa Rica died from rat poison..I don't know the details tho. This article is from a small animal pet clinic.

Rat Poison
Author: Dr.Peay on Mar 04, 2004 - 07:06 PM


Current Pet News
Rat Poison

During the winter, we see many cases of animals ingesting rat poison. Most of the cases we see are due to ingestion of anticoagulants (warfarin, brodifacoum) rat poisons. It should be noted that there are actually three general groups of rat poisons.
These include:

1. Anticoagulants (warfarin, brodifacoum)
2. bromethalin, a neurotoxin
3. cholecalciferol-containing rodenticides



The anticoagulant rodenticides are the most common, and are marketed under many trade names. The mechanism of action of the anticoagulant rodenticides is to deplete vitamin K, which is required for normal blood clotting. Diagnosis is usually based on the owner seeing the pet ingest bait or a rodent that has eaten bait. Rodents that have eaten anticoagulant rodenticides may contain enough chemical rodenticide to poison a dog or cat. If treatment is started early, prognosis is usually good.

Bromethalin is a new nonanticoagulant (Assault, Vengeance) designed to be lethal to rodents after a single dose. The minimum lethal dose for the dog is approximately 21g bait per pound body weight, meaning that a 30 lb dog would have to consume 630g bait (or 15 packs of bait) to receive a lethal dose. Ingestion of rodents that have consumed bromethalin does not cause toxicity in the dog. Thus bromethalin is a safer rodenticide for use where dogs are present than the anticoagulant rodenticides. Bromethalin is a neurotoxin directly affecting the brain and cerebrospinal fluid. Clinical signs associated with ingestion of bromethalin appear about 10 hours post-ingestion and include severe muscle tremors, excitability, running fits, seizures and depression.

The last category of rodenticides is those containing cholecalciferol or vitamin D (Quintox, Rampage, Ortho Mouse-B-Gone, Ortho Rat-B-Gone). As little as 1g bait per pound body weight can cause toxicity in the dog. Young dogs appear to be more sensitive. These rodenticides act by causing vitamin D toxicosis, raising serum calcium levels to dangerously high levels. Clinical signs arise within 18 to 36 hours after ingestion, and include depression, anorexia, increased urination and increased water intake. Muscles are affected by high calcium, and the animal becomes very weak. Heart conduction becomes slowed, and ventricular fibrillation and cardiac arrest may result.

With all of these, immediate treatment is vital.

Please be careful with any of these rodenticides. Place the bait in a location inaccessible by pets or consider using a mechanical type of rodent control such as an old-fashioned mousetrap or the newer nonchemical mouse-motels.

Thank you, Chris & Noni... great information. I also recently read about someone who used ant/insect spray around the ground under their trailer. That causes me concern because I have dogs who would lick up something that smelled sweet, or at the very least could walk into it and then lick their feet. Really worries me that there are people who do things without thinking of the potential consequences to other unintended animals/children first.

[B_and_D]

We have one retired hunting cat who is 18 now. Every once in a while (if I get lucky) I trap a gopher in the garden, and as long as it's still fairly fresh she'll eat it. If it's been dead for a while there isn't much interest. Cats (at least ours) are picky.

We've been using mouse & rat bait around here for 20 years and have had the cats for 18 and 19 years, so far no problems, but I can't say with certainty that your pet won't eat a rodent that has been killed by poison. Dogs aren't that picky.

Someone I know had their dog fatally poisoned by eating mushrooms in the lawn. According to their vet, it's not an uncommon occurrence and not too many people are aware that this can happen.

Here's a report of someone who lost their two of their dogs to poisonous mushrooms:

http://www.sfbstc.org/Health/MushroomP.htm

Thanks to all who replied to my mouse question. I gather no one really knows of any one known access point, and of all the replys, none suggested that they may be gaining access simply through anywhere in the seals between the two shells. So I will asume TM's are pretty tight that way.

As a new owner I am just beginning to learn the ropes of RV camping and checking off new experiances each time I go out. That being said this is really a great forum for us "newbies" as we are called. So on my last trip a few days ago I ran into a new situation completely unexpected. So, check out another question regarding changing tires!

[Bill]

dfranke -

This question gets a lot of consideration, and as you can see, there don't seem to be any universal solutions. The basic need is to close up all openings into the trailer, so I suggest that you slide under the TM with a can of expanding foam in hand, and put a shot of foam into every opening you can find. (Not the screened openings, obviously.) Then go inside and open the doors of the cabinets that are over the wheel wells. Inspect the wheel well liners, and give another shot of foam anywhere they have pulled away from the floor. (Incidentally, this keeps dust out, too.)

I had mice one year when my trailer was parked in an outdoor storage lot. It was backed up against a fence, with dense woods behind the fence. I think the mice came from the woods, climbed up the stabilizer jacks and went in at the seam between the floor of the living area and the floor of the slider. Next year I did two things. First, I lifted the slideout a few inches and examined the seal, found a loose spot, and fixed it. Then, I insisted that the storage lot give me a space in the middle of the pavement, 100 feet from the fence. One or the other worked - no more mice.

Bill

We have a cabin on our lake here in Washington. Anyway, we had mice under the cabin and so my husband took PVC pipe cut into short sections and small enough that only mice can get in and we duct taped the ends leaving only a small section open and put poison inside. It handled our problem nicely and kept dogs/cats out of the PVC sections, as we worry about dogs/cats/etc getting in.

Sounds like maybe we were just lucky to avoid mice in our TM. But, here is what we did...anyway, since our old popup was toatlly destroyed while it was parked in the woods over the winter. In the TM, we took everything out of all drawers and storage spots -- everything! We put everything in 3 large plastic bins with tight lids and put 2 under the bed and one in the aisle. We vacuumed and wiped out every compartment. We took the matress to the attic. We bought the economy size Bounce box and put Bounce sheets in every compartment, drawer, corner -- all over the couch and chair, and in every bin. We lay mouse sticky strips on the floor and in places like the sink. We parked the TM on pavement and there it sat for two years while we waited to buy a new tow vehicle. In those 2 years, we had nothing inside the camper and everything smelled nice and fresh when we opened up. Again, we may have been just lucky!
Queen

I found a mouse nest in my TM bumper storage! Put in two poison blocks and gone next day.

I sealed all the openings I could find, why doesn't TM do that??

Also, bought 10 ft of black plastic 3 inch tube. Cut it into 4 sections and put in mouse blocks. Placed with bricks to keep out pets, etc. but not mice.

Next day more eaten so replaced them.

I will keep them out this winter, Any more suggestions keep them coming.

TWO WEEKS Later
I reopened the camper and found mouse sign, They came in under door this time. I placed more baits under the camper today. Any suggestion for a better bottom door seal for winter storage??