Time to pull the toilet...donut thickness?

pauloh · 06-09-2013, 09:37 PM

We've had a slow, intermittent leak from our Thetford toilet, running onto the floor inside. The amount of liquid getting out, when actually leaking, would maybe dampen 5 or 6 paper towels in a day so we lived with it last year on a couple trips. I've operated the slide valve a few times recently as I checked things out for upcoming travel and I think there's more water getting out now, so I guess the time has come to pull the toilet.

I have a new Electra Magic Slide Valve (with a rubber donut on it already) plus a spare donut both ordered last year when I thought I might have to tackle this. As noted elsewhere here, the rubber/foam donut on the slide valve is thinner than the donut ordered separately as a supposed correct replacement. Thick donut (called "Seal - CL. Flange Pkg.") is part #33239, and the replacement "Electra Magic Slide Valve" is part 12836 but the thinner donut there doesn't have its own number.

I've read and will use Bill's toilet tutorial and ShrimpBurrito's comments/photos as well. Am wondering if it's best to compress the thick donut (have DW sit on the toilet while I tighten things down) rather than using the thinner one. I'll compare both to what is installed there now, but if the factory used a thin donut and it now leaks, maybe thicker is better?

While I'm in there, I guess I'll take out the toilet's "skirt" also. Sounds like trouble waiting to happen and we don't travel with the toilet charged.

**ShrimpBurrito** · 06-09-2013, 10:37 PM

Hi Paul,

First, you don't actually have to take the toilet apart to get to the EZ Slide valve, so you won't "already be in there" to take out the vinyl skirt. And doing it then won't save you any time, either, so unless you feel inclined to remove it anyway, you can procrastinate away.

Second, I just replaced by EZ Slide valve a few months ago because the old one had cracked. I can't remember if mine came with the donut or not, but perhaps you can take a pic and post it. I do remember it came with an o-ring that fits firmly around the chute part of the valve that goes through the donut.

I have replaced the donut separately, but the one I use is Thetford part #33364, as shown in this parts diagram:
http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/P...8/Default.aspx

They run about $5. You might consider just buying a one of those and compare it to the one you have. If they are the same, you are ready for the next time you pull the toilet -- it's not if, but when.

And yes, whenever I reinstall the toilet with a new seal, I have my lovely assistant site on the throne to compress it while I attach it to the floor. But -- DON'T SIT ON THE LID -- it will crack. Sit on the seat as normal.

Dave

pauloh · 06-10-2013, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Hi Paul,

First, you don't actually have to take the toilet apart to get to the EZ Slide valve, so you won't "already be in there" to take out the vinyl skirt. And doing it then won't save you any time, either, so unless you feel inclined to remove it anyway, you can procrastinate away.
Dave

I'm calling that good news, thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Hi Paul,

Second, I just replaced by EZ Slide valve a few months ago because the old one had cracked. I can't remember if mine came with the donut or not, but perhaps you can take a pic and post it. I do remember it came with an o-ring that fits firmly around the chute part of the valve that goes through the donut.

Dave

I'll attach a photo here of the complete assembly and the donut I ordered/received separately 2 years ago. (I've been procrastinating on this longer than I realized

) Also a shot of my order for these parts from American RV Company. The 2 gray rings look like the same part to me except for their thickness but I haven't called Amer. RV or Thetford to ask them why they are different. What you call the o-ring I'm guessing is the black thing just visible at the top (upper side of the slide valve?) I believe I'll pull the toilet in a day or two and see what's there and then decide if I need to order anything else. I'll shoot some photos. Hadn't realized further disassembly won't necessarily be needed for this and that's a relief. I sure appreciate the advice and all the time you've put into this issue for the forum.

**ShrimpBurrito** · 06-10-2013, 12:19 PM

I just measured the thickness of the cylindrical part of my spare seal (the part that sits above the flange), Thetford part #33364, and it is 5/16" thick. That is the one I have always used, and I have never had a problem under ordinary circumstances (the exception was a very rough road that knocked the toilet off the flange a bit). My guess is that is the one that came with the valve, so that is the one I would use.

Before you put the valve on the toilet, I recommend lubing the slide (through the discharge hole) with some Dow Corning 111 Valve Lubricant and Sealant. It makes the slide super easy to operate, and also helps the seal last longer -- I think the seal gets deformed when the gate of the valve grabs the seal, due to inadequate lube, and bunches it up when you try to close it, which eventually causes it to tear. The Dow lube has roughly the consistency of Neosporin....maybe even petroleum jelly. It comes in packets, toothpaste-sized tubes, and caulking tubes IIRC. I got the toothpaste-sized tube for ~$15 (I think on eBay), and it will undoubtedly last me as long as I have the trailer.

Note in the future, you can buy a gasket kit (Thetford part #09872) for the EZ Slide valve for about a third of the price of a new valve, so don't throw your old valve away if it is not cracked. Get a seal kit for it and you can make it like new, and when you're putting those seals in, you can probably do a better job of lubing it with it disassembled.

Dave

pauloh · 06-10-2013, 01:21 PM

Thanks for the additional info. I'm hoping to pull the toilet this afternoon or tomorrow. I have some of that Dow lube and will put it on the slide. Thanks for reminding me I bought it a while back for this occasion!

For the reference of others, the thinner of the 2 rings I have (the one that came with the slide) is also 5/16" thick (total thickness including the "collar") while the thicker one is about 7/8".

pauloh · 06-10-2013, 04:39 PM

Using Bill's tutorial:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=5889

I'm at step 8 where I have my hook and am trying to remove the plastic wedge on each side under the toilet. Bill's photo shows them removed, so I know what they look like. But I am not clear on what to hook onto, I don't see a "big end"? It looks to me like the wedges need to be PUSHED away, but I'm sure that's wrong. If someone who has done it can comment on my photo, that would be great. I'm using a tent stake per Bill's suggestion, held with a vise grip. 100 lbs. of weight (books in boxes) on the toilet seat to try to make it easier to pull the wedge once I understand what I'm supposed to pull on. Is it #1 or back there at #2 (forgive the nomenclature!) Didn't want to break that plastic wedge pulling hard on the wrong thingie.

Bill wrote:
8. The toilet is held down by a pair of sliding wedges (Photo 4). The next step is to lie down on your belly, and peer under the toilet with a flashlight. To the left and right of center, you will see the big end of each wedge, resting in a brass-colored track. Reach in with your hook tool, drop the end of the hook over the end of each wedge, and pull it toward you until you feel it release. You may have to pull hard, and it may help to have someone else sit or stand on the toilet lid to take some of the pressure off the wedges.

**Bill** · 06-10-2013, 09:23 PM

Paul -

As I recall, you do NOT pull on any of the metal parts. You pull the thick end of the white nylon slide wedges toward you - it slides within the brass track, which is fixed in position. In your photo, I am not seeing the nylon pieces, which mystifies me.

You may find more info by getting the manual for the Electra-Magic Model 80 directly from the Thetford web site. The pictures (sketches, actually) are pretty clear.

A couple of our members have reported that when they tried to remove their toilet, they found that the wedges had been installed backward. I take this to mean that the thick end was toward the back of the toilet, rather than the front. I'm not sure how it could be installed that way, but that is what was reported, and you are saying that it looks that way to you. In that case, you would indeed have to push the wedges away from you, and then reinstall them correctly when you put it all back together.

Let us know what you find.

Bill

**ShrimpBurrito** · 06-10-2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

As I recall, you do NOT pull on any of the metal parts. You pull the thick end of the white nylon slide wedges toward you - it slides within the brass track, which is fixed in position. In your photo, I am not seeing the nylon pieces, which mystifies me.

Bill is correct. Those white nylon wedges are #6 in the bottom diagram here:
http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/P...8/Default.aspx

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

A couple of our members have reported that when they tried to remove their toilet, they found that the wedges had been installed backward. I take this to mean that the thick end was toward the back of the toilet, rather than the front. I'm not sure how it could be installed that way, but that is what was reported, and you are saying that it looks that way to you. In that case, you would indeed have to push the wedges away from you, and then reinstall them correctly when you put it all back together.

Bill is also correct here. I can see the nylon wedges in your photo (which you have labeled), and they were definitely installed from the rear of the toilet, probably before the factory attached the wall. If you look beyond that bolt, you should see the edge of the clip sticking up -- it's the only white thing that should be down there (the toilet is sand colored or whatever). To remove, take a flat-bladed screwdriver and place it on the part of the wedge that is sticking up behind the bolt -- give the screwdriver a few taps with the hammer, and you should see the two white parts under the bolt move backwards. This doesn't require he-man strength, but it isn't surgery either. Don't be afraid to give it as much force as you would in hammering a medium-sized nail. Once those clips are free of the bolt, you won't be able to push them back further because there is a stop back there. When that happens, you just lift up the toilet -- those bolts may catch on that bracket, so you may just have to wiggle it to get it free.

When you reinstall, you will move those wedges so you tap them in the the same screwdriver/hammer -- I believe you will have to reverse those tracks in which they ride, which are screwed into the toilet. Easy to flip.

Let us know how it goes!

Dave

pauloh · 06-10-2013, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill

Paul -

As I recall, you do NOT pull on any of the metal parts. You pull the thick end of the white nylon slide wedges toward you - it slides within the brass track, which is fixed in position. In your photo, I am not seeing the nylon pieces, which mystifies me.

You may find more info by getting the manual for the Electra-Magic Model 80 directly from the Thetford web site. The pictures (sketches, actually) are pretty clear.

A couple of our members have reported that when they tried to remove their toilet, they found that the wedges had been installed backward. I take this to mean that the thick end was toward the back of the toilet, rather than the front. I'm not sure how it could be installed that way, but that is what was reported, and you are saying that it looks that way to you. In that case, you would indeed have to push the wedges away from you, and then reinstall them correctly when you put it all back together.

Let us know what you find.

Bill

Hi Bill,
I checked out the manual, thanks:
http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/P...6/Default.aspx
and on page 7 (screenshot attached here) there is a line drawing showing the 2 little wedges (Item 4, they call them "slides"), and they look exactly reversed from what I'm seeing under my Thetford. In my photo (last post) where it says "front of wedge" you're seeing the "feet" or points of the slide/wedge aiming toward the front of the toilet. It's fuzzy and doesn't look like it in the photo but there's a slope there down to the points that should let the nut/bolt slide down as the wedges are pushed back. I cannot make any other sense of it, and unless I hear some other advice here, tomorrow I guess I will try pushing these away from the front. I'm glad you said others have reported this, I thought I was crazy looking at your tutorial and thinking mine were in backwards! I'll report back on this.

pauloh · 06-10-2013, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Bill is correct. Those white nylon wedges are #6 in the bottom diagram here:
http://www.thetford.com/HOME/PARTS/P...8/Default.aspx

Bill is also correct here. I can see the nylon wedges in your photo (which you have labeled), and they were definitely installed from the rear of the toilet, probably before the factory attached the wall. If you look beyond that bolt, you should see the edge of the clip sticking up -- it's the only white thing that should be down there (the toilet is sand colored or whatever). To remove, take a flat-bladed screwdriver and place it on the part of the wedge that is sticking up behind the bolt -- give the screwdriver a few taps with the hammer, and you should see the two white parts under the bolt move backwards. This doesn't require he-man strength, but it isn't surgery either. Don't be afraid to give it as much force as you would in hammering a medium-sized nail. Once those clips are free of the bolt, you won't be able to push them back further because there is a stop back there. When that happens, you just lift up the toilet -- those bolts may catch on that bracket, so you may just have to wiggle it to get it free.

When you reinstall, you will move those wedges so you tap them in the the same screwdriver/hammer -- I believe you will have to reverse those tracks in which they ride, which are screwed into the toilet. Easy to flip.

Dave

Thanks for confirming all this, Dave, and the line drawing you referenced shows the clip/slide/wedge more clearly. I'm sure I can tap them out of there as you suggest, that makes perfect sense with what I saw under there. I'll post results....