17-days in Utah

[B_and_D]

I think they started leaking at different times, it depends on which valve. From what I recall, the main valve for the water tank would leak when there was water in the tank; the low point valves would leak after there was water being used in the TM. I remember twice when we went camping one of the rear valves started leaking, a steady drip, drip, drip. After we changed the anode rod in the hot water heater, even one of the brass valves developed a leak. We keep our TM covered, so if they're leaking now, I wouldn't be able to tell unless I ran some water and then lifted up to cover to observe the drains. We've been down to 27.7 so far this winter, so it wouldn't be a bad idea for me to check on them!

I just had a thought...there is an area with a lot of plumbing that seems vulnerable to freezing. However TM claims their plumbing materials restists damage to freezing, so the idea below may be mute.

I had to work in this area which is behind the exterior shower when my torsion bar mounting plate competely blewout. My left rear plate popped down, completely failing as posted here:
http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...6&postcount=10

Anyway, this area can be accessed by removing the outdoor shower and is behind the bathtub and converter panel. The area continues open towards the aft of the RV with a large screened hole in the floor to vent to fresh air and it has TONS of plumbing, for the Hot and Cold bath and outdoor shower.

This is also the area the bathroom fan exhausts into, which seems to be a good thing if freezing is a concern.

I was thinking on the coldest nights if leaving the bathroom exhaust fan on would help to keep that area from freezing, beause the bath fan blows directly onto this plumbing?

But I really haven't seen anyone post about their plumbing being damaged from freezing, mainly fixtures like shower heads and sink sprayers. Seems like this just isn't a problem WRT to the white fresh water lines in the TMs.

[countrygirl]

We have camped 18-22 degrees witj 40 to 50 mph winds...and we had no freezing issues. We left the bathroom door open as well as the door under the kitchen sink. We used an electric space heater and the camper gas heater cycled on some. We had fresh water in the tank...the fresh water hose was disconnected and drained. We did not drain the toilet...and I doubt we drained the grey tank. We had no issues.

Originally Posted by countrygirl

We have camped 18-22 degrees witj 40 to 50 mph winds...and we had no freezing issues. We left the bathroom door open as well as the door under the kitchen sink. We used an electric space heater and the camper gas heater cycled on some. We had fresh water in the tank...the fresh water hose was disconnected and drained. We did not drain the toilet...and I doubt we drained the grey tank. We had no issues.

Thank you, this is very helpful. Thanks again to everyone for great tips and insights.

Hope you have an enjoyable trip. Look forward to hearing how you fare in the adverse conditions. Also would be interested in what campgrounds you like. Do you or anyone else know what happened to a campgground that I thought was located right in downtown Moab? I can't find it on any of the Moab web sites anymore. (I'm not talking about the ones south of town-this one was pretty close to the info center if I am remembering correctly?)Wanted to use it on my next trip, which would be my first one with the TM.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by moaboy

Hope you have an enjoyable trip. Look forward to hearing how you fare in the adverse conditions. Also would be interested in what campgrounds you like. Do you or anyone else know what happened to a campgground that I thought was located right in downtown Moab? I can't find it on any of the Moab web sites anymore. (I'm not talking about the ones south of town-this one was pretty close to the info center if I am remembering correctly?)Wanted to use it on my next trip, which would be my first one with the TM.

We prefer the more remote campgrounds. Windwhistle is a BLM campground maybe 15 minutes from Moab. It is dry camping. Has water, outhouses, picnic tables, and fire rings. It is also close to the back entrance of Canyon Lands NP.

Just a quick note to say Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all!

Couple photos from along the way are posted below.

That one photo of the CA NV State-line (photo with casinos in the distance) is normally dry. The storms that past through the west really made for some impressive scenery and challenges. I215 and I15 were shut down to single (ONE) lanes for emergency repairs on the 23rd making for a very long day from SD to Vegas.

Great news on saving propane...even though the HIGH was 43 and low of 28 I have NOT had to use the propane furnace. I posted about a heater combination I was testing, it works better than expected. For example, currently it is 31 outside and ranges from 66 on the fridge to 74 at the sink, warmer at the dinette and cooler at the back. Very comfortable, shorts and socks temps.

I am using two 1500w heaters. A 1500w Lasco ceramic and a new oil filled radiator type shown here:
http://www.amazon.com/Delonghi-TRD07...3&sr=8-1-fkmr0

I realize all 1500w heaters SHOULD put out the same heat, energy = energy BUT I think there is something about the physical mass/surface area of the oil filled fins and the heat chimney design of this unit, that build up with heat, then radiate that heat in a manner that works very well for the TM interior space. All in know is at these temps it's very comfortable and I have had to turn the thermostat DOWN because it got too warm. I have the radiator at the foot of the dinette table with a small fan blowing on low over the top of the heater and the Lasco in the hallway with the bathroom door open, so far has worked great.

There is a chance of snow Sunday and colder temps, plus I will be going to Moab where it's been even colder, so I will post back, but so far no propane use to heat the 2619.

I will post with more details as the trip continues, but wanted to make certain to express sincere holiday wishes to all.

Cheers!

Mr Geek (aka Bob)

[T and C]

Bob,

" realize all 1500w heaters SHOULD put out the same heat, energy = energy BUT I think there is something about the physical mass/surface area of the oil filled fins and the heat chimney design of this unit, that build up with heat, then radiate that heat in a manner that works very well for the TM interior space. "

I think the difference between the two types of heaters is in the mass density of the oil. Mass is the quantity of matter, (atoms), you are dealing with. When you just heat air, there is very little mass involved so what mass there is heats up fast, and then cools off just about as fast when the heat source is turned off.

With the oil filled heater, it heats up much slower because it has a lot more to heat up. But it does not cool off as fast because most of the oil is not in contact with the tubing and therefore does not exchange its heat rapidly. So, it stays hot longer.

We have all walked into a bathroom barefooted. The flooring and the rugs are at the same temperature. The rugs, however, are much more comfortable to step on than the cold floor. That is because the light material the rug is woven from does not have nearly the amount of mass per cm3 that the dense flooring material does. So, the warmth of your feet does not exchange heat on the rugs as fast as on the floor.

This principle is also the reason it is possible to "firewalk".

Tom

Originally Posted by T and C

Bob,

" realize all 1500w heaters SHOULD put out the same heat, energy = energy BUT I think there is something about the physical mass/surface area of the oil filled fins and the heat chimney design of this unit, that build up with heat, then radiate that heat in a manner that works very well for the TM interior space. "

I think the difference between the two types of heaters is in the mass density of the oil. Mass is the quantity of matter, (atoms), you are dealing with. When you just heat air, there is very little mass involved so what mass there is heats up fast, and then cools off just about as fast when the heat source is turned off.

With the oil filled heater, it heats up much slower because it has a lot more to heat up. But it does not cool off as fast because most of the oil is not in contact with the tubing and therefore does not exchange its heat rapidly. So, it stays hot longer.

We have all walked into a bathroom barefooted. The flooring and the rugs are at the same temperature. The rugs, however, are much more comfortable to step on than the cold floor. That is because the light material the rug is woven from does not have nearly the amount of mass per cm3 that the dense flooring material does. So, the warmth of your feet does not exchange heat on the rugs as fast as on the floor.

This principle is also the reason it is possible to "firewalk".

Tom

Makes sense, thanks Tom. This heater has exceeded my expectations, it's silent in operation, only a faint "tic" when it cycles on/off. The only bad side is it's heavy BUT the mass (oil and metal radiator fins) that makes it heavy is also what makes it work so well. It's like a heat storage device that holds heat as well as it radiates heat. I am sure there are laws of physics that state it can't make more heat that any other 1500w heater BUT I know what I feel and this unit really works well in the TM interior space configuration.

It's like a nice little fireplace in the center of the TM. I won't take it on trips where the temps are mild, but on cold weather trips it has earned a place in my RV.

Also, the $60 price tag might seem high, but with one of these and a 1500w ceramic $20 Wal-Mart cheapy the savings in propane will make it well worth the $$$, IMHO. I had planned on having to fill one tank by now but I haven't even used any propane yet

Another big plus is saftey. My cat likes to camp and thinks the TM is a blast, so I take her. When I go on Jeep runs I am gone all day, sometimes overnight on runs like Rubicon Trail where you camp at Rubicon Springs. With this trip being in the dead of winter I wanted a heater I could leave on without much worry. This oil filled radiator heater meets that need. As I mentioned it is also silent, so last night instead of waking up everytime the TM furnace blower comes on, I slept like a rock, that's a welcome change.

Just in case anyone is interested I attached a photo of the oil filled radiator heater in use in my TM.

The unit can be turned 90-degrees so the dinette table can be fully extended and still have the heater at the end of the table. This Dragon Series model is designed to have much more heat out of the top than the sides, it incorporates special vertical heat tubes that accomplish this, so it is very pleasant to sit next to at the dinette with most of the heat coming out of the top.

You can feel the hot air blowing out the top as the unit heats up, once heated to normal operating temperature it's impressive how much heat it creates. The sides don't get too hot where you can get burned so sitting next to the unit at the dinette provides nice heat, not overwhelming, just pleasant.

The bottom doesn't get too hot for the carpet either. A small fan aids in distributing the heat, but it's not necessary.