17-days in Utah

Hello all,

Just a couple quick pics.

1 - Leaving Moab
2 - Driving through very cold, icy roads
3 - Arriving in Zion area - Balmy 35-degrees
4 - This morning at Zion River Resort aka Heaven

Bob.

Just saw that they had SNOW in St George!! You sure know how to pick a week! <grin>

Thanks again for a very informative thread.

Keith

[Bill]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

I wonder how effective the insulation for pipes is on multiple days of below freezing temps. It seems it would be good for overnight freezing temps with above freezing days, but I wonder how well it would work for multiple days with below freezing temps. Any insight/experience?

Bob.

Well, the first thing to remember is that insulation does not create any warmth. It simply slows down the loss of whatever warmth is already present. In other words, wrapping insulation around a pipe won't keep it from freezing - it will simply delay the freezing. And of course it also delays the penetration of warmth into the pipe when the ambient temperature rises.

My opinion - backed up by only a little experience - is that stopping air leaks and drafts into the area where the pipes run is the first step to take. An insulated pipe will freeze pretty quickly if you blow zero-degree air over it.

The area behind the refrig is probably a prime example. The open vents above and below admit an unlimited amount of outside air. I would block off the lower vent entirely, turn off the refrig vent fan, and let the heat from the refrig mechanism warm up the compartment a bit.

Under the tub is similar, but a bit harder to deal with. That big hole in the floor (for the vent fan) is a problem. I would plug up that hole, mount a second fan behind the grille next to the bathtub, and let this second fan circulate air from the bathroom, under the tub, and into the hallway through the converter.

Assuming you have electric power, heat tape is a wonderful thing. Even easier, a thermostatically controlled outlet is cheap and easy. Ace Hardware has one (item 33524 in the search box) that is kind of expensive, but there are others for around $5. I have the cheaper version under the sink at my cabin in the Rockies, and it works like a champ! Keith Wire, I bet you know what I am talking about. It looks just like the picture below, except that the middle outlet of the three is blank (that's where the thermal switch is). Just put it in the area to be protected, and plug a light bulb into it. The light bulb acts as a heater when needed.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

Originally Posted by Bluegrass

Just saw that they had SNOW in St George!! You sure know how to pick a week! <grin>

Thanks again for a very informative thread.

Keith

This thread wouldn't have been much without all the great folks who shared stories, feedback and information. Thanks to everyone, you all are making this a more enjoyable trip in my 2619.

The abnormally cold temps made for a very good opportunity to test electric heating methods and coping with freezing issues. I am still extremely pleased to only have had to use my gas furnace when temps dropped below 10-degrees by using a 1500w oil filled radiator and 1500w cermic fan heater.

I didn't mention this but ice build up on the roof and sides of the TM was substantial. To close the back half (first one down) I had to try twice, using some force the second time to brake ice that built up around the torsion bar. The other problem was the end windows cover/awnings. They froze all along the top, inside the hinge zone and closing as very tough, but doable. I used a hair dryer to help things along.

In Moab yesterday, before closing I only knocked off the bigger chunks around the RV so I could close it. Today as it thaws out, a couple larger Icebergs are falling off making a pretty neat scene in the RV park. It was really was an intesnsely cold time in Moab one I enjoyed to live and to live through

I am staying in Zion until the 8th, then it's back home to San Diego.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Bill

Well, the first thing to remember is that insulation does not create any warmth. It simply slows down the loss of whatever warmth is already present. In other words, wrapping insulation around a pipe won't keep it from freezing - it will simply delay the freezing. And of course it also delays the penetration of warmth into the pipe when the ambient temperature rises.

My opinion - backed up by only a little experience - is that stopping air leaks and drafts into the area where the pipes run is the first step to take. An insulated pipe will freeze pretty quickly if you blow zero-degree air over it.

The area behind the refrig is probably a prime example. The open vents above and below admit an unlimited amount of outside air. I would block off the lower vent entirely, turn off the refrig vent fan, and let the heat from the refrig mechanism warm up the compartment a bit.

Under the tub is similar, but a bit harder to deal with. That big hole in the floor (for the vent fan) is a problem. I would plug up that hole, mount a second fan behind the grille next to the bathtub, and let this second fan circulate air from the bathroom, under the tub, and into the hallway through the converter.

Assuming you have electric power, heat tape is a wonderful thing. Even easier, a thermostatically controlled outlet is cheap and easy. Ace Hardware has one (item 33524 in the search box) that is kind of expensive, but there are others for around $5. I have the cheaper version under the sink at my cabin in the Rockies, and it works like a champ! Keith Wire, I bet you know what I am talking about. It looks just like the picture below, except that the middle outlet of the three is blank (that's where the thermal switch is). Just put it in the area to be protected, and plug a light bulb into it. The light bulb acts as a heater when needed.

Just my thoughts.

Bill

Great info Bill! I like the thermo outlet, very useful in below freezing conditions, I did not know they made such a device.

Very cool,

Bob.

[ShrimpBurrito]

Amazon sells those thermostat outlets, and you even have a few choices for temps. Prices are $10-$15.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006U2HD2

Dave

[Barb&Tim]

Bob, thanks for a very enjoyable and informative thread. I also loved looking at your great pictures -- that is really some beautiful country and it reminds me that i really need to get out that way soon!

Tim

[OneMoBear]

Originally Posted by Mr Geek

Camping in freezing weather isn't an ideal situation BUT if you love the outdoors in ALL seasons I feel the TM can do it as well as other RVs can just as long as you keep in mind things that need to be done to avoid problems.

Well, not quite. We have been fine in our TM in single digits but those BIG DOGS are built to withstand MUCH more than the TMs. In our Bounder, worst case scenario, we put a droplight in the basement compartment where the black and grey water hookups were and removed one of the nightstand drawers where the fresh water tank was. No freezing inside . . . ever.

Malinda

Originally Posted by OneMoBear

Well, not quite. We have been fine in our TM in single digits but those BIG DOGS are built to withstand MUCH more than the TMs. In our Bounder, worst case scenario, we put a droplight in the basement compartment where the black and grey water hookups were and removed one of the nightstand drawers where the fresh water tank was. No freezing inside . . . ever.

Malinda

I stand corrected, bad wording to describe my thought. My intent was to say most all RVs are effected by freezing weather and knowing how to manage each RVs issues is key to being able to camp in such weather. If you know the specific issues with the TMs, you can camp in cold temps right along with most other RVs.

It sounds like you were able to easily manage freezing issues with your Bounder. From what I have found I am sure TMs are much more difficult to manage freezing issue than what you described.

Also I hope you are enjoying your oil filled radiator heater Malinda. I know I sure am. It's so nice to have silent radiant heat that works so well. It is now my preferred heater to use. It is the only heater I have been using in daytime since arriving in Zion, the silent radiant heat works very well in my TM. I will most likely be taking it along on any trip where heat may be needed. Even though it takes up some space the benefits and warm ambiance it provides outweigh the floorspace it uses IMHO. It's a real work horse.

Bob.

[Bill]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

Amazon sells those thermostat outlets, and you even have a few choices for temps. Prices are $10-$15.

That's the one, Dave! For the life of me, I couldn't remember the name stamped on it. Thanks! Pic from Amazon.

Bill