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Old 07-17-2005, 09:28 AM   #1
Bill
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Default Some weight information

In this Towing Rigs forum, we have a lot of discussion about the weight of a TM, but there is not much actual data. Yesterday I had a chance to do some detailed weighing, so here is at least one data point that may be useful in future discussions.

Trailer: 2006 2720SL
Dry weight according to TM web site: 2865 lbs

Factory options:
  • Awning
  • Low profile roof air
  • TV antenna
  • Spare tire (no longer considered an option?)
  • Swing tongue
  • Hanging kitchen cabinet
  • Microwave stand
In addition, the trailer contained the stuff that is always there for any trip:
  • Microwave
  • TV
  • Water hoses, extension cords, etc
  • Tools
  • Dishes, silverware, etc
  • Bed linens, pillows, etc
  • Cleaning supplies
The trailer DID NOT contain any of the stuff that gets changed out every trip
  • Cold food in the refrig/freezer
  • Dry food/canned food
  • Clothing
  • Toiletries
  • Computer, camera, binoculars, and similar goodies
  • Books, maps, etc
Fresh water tank: empty
Water heater: empty
Gray water tank: empty
Toilet: empty
Propane: both tanks full (40 pounds)

In this condition, the trailer weights were:
  • Gross weight (trailer disconnected from TV): 3550 pounds, divided up as
  • Left wheel: 1500 pounds
  • Right wheel: 1500 pounds
  • Tongue weight: 550 pounds
A couple points are notable.
  • The weight of the trailer, with options and basic supplies, is quite different from the “dry weight”.
  • The tongue weight is about 15% of the total weight – more than most travel trailers. This is one of the major contributors to the TM’s towing stability and lack of sway.
  • I didn’t have a chance to weigh it with the spring bars snapped up. The usual assumption is that a WDH puts a third of the tongue weight on the tow vehicle front wheels, a third on the tow vehicle rear wheels, and a third on the trailer wheels. I am not convinced that it works out that way in real life, but under that assumption, a weight-distributing hitch would move 185 pounds of the hitch weight back onto the trailer wheels. This means that with the WDH engaged, the weight on the trailer wheels would be about 3185 pounds, and the tongue weight carried by the tow vehicle would be about 365 pounds. Since the trailer's axle limit is 3500 pounds, and the tires’ limit is 3750 pounds (1875 x 2), there is some margin – but not a lot.
  • The left-right balance is excellent. However, as Ray has pointed out many times, the liquid tanks are on the road side, so if you run with the tanks full, not only do you increase the total weight, but you risk overloading the left tire.
  • Finally, I would expect that food, clothes, and other per-trip items would total at least 200 pounds. If you add bikes, extra or bigger batteries, solar panels (portable or mounted), water, and so forth – well, you can do the math. The margin quickly becomes vanishingly small.
Hope this helps

Bill
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Old 07-17-2005, 11:18 AM   #2
Denny_A
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
...........snip............In addition, the trailer contained the stuff that is always there for any trip:


  • Microwave
  • TV
  • Water hoses, extension cords, etc
  • Tools
  • Dishes, silverware, etc
  • Bed linens, pillows, etc
  • Cleaning supplies
The trailer DID NOT contain any of the stuff that gets changed out every trip
  • Cold food in the refrig/freezer
  • Dry food/canned food
  • Clothing
  • Toiletries
  • Computer, camera, binoculars, and similar goodies
  • Books, maps, etc
Fresh water tank: empty
Water heater: empty
Gray water tank: empty
Toilet: empty
Propane: both tanks full (40 pounds)

In this condition, the trailer weights were:
  • Gross weight: 3550 pounds
  • Left wheel: 1500 pounds
  • Right wheel: 1500 pounds
  • Tongue weight: 550 pounds
.................snip..................
Hope this helps

Bill
Bill,

If the bold items were not in the trailer, how much less would the trailer weigh? Two hundred or 300 lbs?. If so, then could we say that a TM sitting on a dealer's lot weighs about 350-450 lbs more than the dry weight specs?

I.e., for prospective owners of a TM, be aware of what the real weight of the trailer will be with options - before buying. In fact, there's a vehicle ACTUAL weight label (inclusive of all options installed) pasted to the wall just inside the entry door.


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Old 07-17-2005, 12:00 PM   #3
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny_A
Bill,

If the bold items were not in the trailer, how much less would the trailer weigh? Two hundred or 300 lbs?.
Mebbe, though I don't think so. I'm having trouble getting to 100 pounds, at least for those things listed. I imagine there are others I didn't list, so perhaps they would add significantly to the total. My TM is in storage across town, or I would go cast an eye on it.

At any rate, your point is well taken. Look at the ACTUAL WEIGHT sticker, then keep track, at least roughly, of what you add, in both short term and long term items.

Bill
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Old 07-19-2005, 05:56 PM   #4
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Question Battery Option ?

Bill,

What battery options did you have at the time of measurement ? I think that the standard for the 2720sl is a single group 24 Marine battery in the rear storage locker.

I assume that tongue mounted batteries would reduce axle weight and increase tongue weight (same thing with a WDH). Hence, tongue mounted batteries would give you slightly more axle/tire reserve. Does this sound correct ?

Mike
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Old 07-20-2005, 08:11 PM   #5
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Mike -

My new TM came with a Group 27 Interstate marine battery in the rear locker, rather than the Group 24 that was in my old TM. So that is how it was weighed.

Yes, I think that the weight of a battery on the A-frame would be carried more on the TV, and less on the TM tires, than the rear mounted battery.

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Old 08-17-2005, 03:08 PM   #6
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I wonder if anyone has checked their tongue weight with and without their WDH (including shank) attached to the TM's tongue and can share that info. Most WDH's weigh 75-90lbs and that extra weight alone could require moving up a notch in spring bars by some people. We also have a RoadWing gravel/mud flap gizmo installed on our WDH shank that adds another 30lbs and some have bike racks mounted in the same area.

The best solution of course is to weigh all three axles while hitched (with the WDH installed) or even better all six tires like Ray and Bill have to make sure we are within manufacturer's individual axle/tire and overall weight allowances.
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:32 PM   #7
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Default One could get tied.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fcatwo
I wonder if anyone has checked their tongue weight with and without their WDH (including shank) attached to the TM's tongue and can share that info. Most WDH's weigh 75-90lbs and that extra weight alone could require moving up a notch in spring bars by some people.
....in knots thinking about all the permutations and combinations.

How about the weight in the TV load area. Plus the shank of the WDH. Should both be considered? What's a poor camper to do.

Possibility #1: measure front and rear heights, at the owner-selected spot, then load the TV and install the shank and bars. Connect the trailer and cinch the spring bars so that the TV attidude is close to the starting attitude. Might require a lot more load on the bars to redistribute cargo and shank load also.

Possibility #2 (which I used): Load the TV, then measure front/rear heights. Install shank and bars, connect trailer, and cinch the springbars, as above. In this case, the shank weight is accounted for (2/3 of the weight unloaded from the hitch) after returning the TV to proper attitude.

Possibility #3: Load Tv, install shank, measure heights. After connecting and leveling, none of the TV payload, nor shank weight, is redistributed.

So, when consistently applied, the chosen method AUTOMATICALLY determines the load on the springbars, since re-establishing the TV attitude is the ultimate act that results in springbar load.

Example; #2 ----> 510 lb tongue wt + 75 lb shank weight and a perfect leveling job (in this best of all possible worlds) means that 1/3 of 585 lbs acts downward at the receiver (195 lbs). The same force (195#) will have been distributed to the trailer axle and to the TV front axle.

That's my story and I'm............done.......

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Old 09-18-2009, 12:18 PM   #8
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Default WDH weight carried by the TV

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny_A View Post
....in knots thinking about all the permutations and combinations.

How about the weight in the TV load area. Plus the shank of the WDH. Should both be considered? What's a poor camper to do.

Denny_A
Denny (if I may be so bold to assume such familiarity)

I have been reviewing many older posts as I research my planned Table of Actual TM weights and came across your post.

If I understand the physics of a WDH, the weight of a WDH (shank,ball and spring bars) is carried by the TV. The weight of the spring bar tension chains is (are) carried by the Trailer. In other words, before the trailer tongue is dropped onto the ball, the TV has already settled to carry the majority of the WDH weight. Adding more load to the TV causes it to drop more and this total drop is what has to be lifted by the spring bars (until the trailer tongue weight is placed on the ball).

If you could grab the ends of the spring bars and pull up (to level the TV without the trailer attached) you would experience the force necessary to lift just the TV and it's load to level. Then drop the trailer tongue onto the ball and lift again. The new force is what is placed on the trailer tongue when the spring bars are tensioned to make the TV/trailer combination level. The only new force that is added is the trailer tongue weight.

I vote for your possibility #2 as being the closest although the 2/3 distribution is not exact. Before it is possible to know the exact weight distribution, a more complex calculation is needed. The attached article gives a good explanation of that process.

Jerry
Attached Files
File Type: doc Ron GratzWDHanalysis.doc (176.5 KB, 63 views)
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