So I'm finally goin' legit...

For any insurance company that says they will pay a claim even when towing over limits, it would be interesting to ask how much over.

I carry an umbrella liability policy as well as all of my base policies. In my situation if the base policy paid but the umbrella did not, then I do not have adequate insurance.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

For any insurance company that says they will pay a claim even when towing over limits, it would be interesting to ask how much over...

I'm told that the "limits" as we know them have no legal standing in criminal courts except as they might be specifically written into the state laws, but enforcement could still occur in cases where they meet the somewhat more stringent standards of something like "reckless", for example. But this varies by state, and I'm not a lawyer, see your legal adviser for details... Of course, there are no bounds for civil cases by trial lawyers.

In order to talk about "over limits", you'd have to first define "limits" and how to use manufacturer's ratings to establish them. This is a mess, because Ford does it differently than Toyota for example, none of them document their methodologies, and our 10,000 words in this forum about it has been illuminating, if not conclusive ("Explain to the jury, Mr Motors, or may I call you 'General?", why the axle weight limit seems to be heavily based on gear ratios instead of actual axle loads..."). The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety could do a great job with this stuff, but they still have a lot to do on heavy trucks with 20% overloads before they have time to worry about light trucks with 20% overloads.

To know an axle weight, for example, you'd need a vehicle on a scale in the condition it was in before the accident, and accidents change the conditions of vehicles. This would be hypothetically possible, but not without great effort and expense. Great effort and expense isn't ever necessary when they already have laws about maintaining control of a motor vehicle, following too closely, and driving too fast for conditions.

The insurance policies you want need to cover you (at least the first time, anyway, before they cancel you), even if somebody on your policy does something stupid.

[T and C]

Mr. A,

I think you are right about the criminal law issue. But what we mostly have to be concerned with is the civil liability involved in vehicle accidents. In California the law used to be that if both parties to an accident contributed to the cause of the accident, neither could recover damages from the other. This was known as "contributory negligence".

In CA, that is gone. The courts now accept an apportionment of negligence theory and if you are in anything but a rear end accident the other side is going to be looking for anything and everything that would get a % of the negligence placed on you. This % is assigned by a jury if the case goes to court, and in CA at least you only have to get 10 jurors to agree, not all 12. That is for civil cases, not criminal ones.

So, overweight towing could definitely be used to throw blame on the party towing the trailer. And blame, in my state, translates into $$$.

BTW, you can see why I carry 1 million in liability coverage on my automobile policy.

Tom

....an Expedition - we used to tow our TM with a 2004 Expedition. Handled the TM well. Got decent mileage with (17-18 not towing around town, and anywhere from 12-15 towing the TM, depending on the terrain we happened to be in at the time). Only reason we traded to our current TV is looking to full-time in the next couple of years and will need something bigger than the TM.

Good luck finding a nice one,

Bob

[T and C]

Folks,

What you drive determines the range of possible gas mileage outcomes. How you drive determines where you will be within that range. I normally get about 13.5 around town with my 5100 lb. empty weight F-150. Where I live I have to constantly climb a big hill to get home any time I go downtown. But, if I am very careful how I drive I have found that I can get as high as 15.5. I usually get 22-24 mpg on the highway.

I know I could get better mileage with a smaller tow vehicle. But for me I am willing to pay a few bucks more for the convenience, safety, and comfort of a large vehicle.

Tom

Originally Posted by T and C

Folks,

What you drive determines the range of possible gas mileage outcomes. How you drive determines where you will be within that range. I normally get about 13.5 around town with my 5100 lb. empty weight F-150. Where I live I have to constantly climb a big hill to get home any time I go downtown. But, if I am very careful how I drive I have found that I can get as high as 15.5. I usually get 22-24 mpg on the highway.

I know I could get better mileage with a smaller tow vehicle. But for me I am willing to pay a few bucks more for the convenience, safety, and comfort of a large vehicle.

Tom

I get the same results with both my 1500HD and my 2500HD. The 1500HD will carry 5 adults. The 2500HD will carry 5 adults plus one pre-teen child.

The 1500HD has a 6.5 foot bed. The 2500HD has a full 8 foot bed.

I an easily fill both with all of my stuff.

Well, that's that -- I am now the proud (and nervous) owner of a new-to-me 04 Expedition... I have to say, whoever owned this before me a) took excellent care of it, both inside and out and b) kept all of their maintenance receipts, which gave me a good window into what they had and had not done. The salesguy was nice too, driving the truck halfway to meet me and putting up with the considerable amount of time I went going over it...

And surprisingly enough, it appears that no one ever towed extensively with it, judging by the inside of the hitch (barely any marks on it at all, and clearly not repainted given the rust on the topside)! So even if they never changed the tranny fluid, at least they didn't tow heavy things AND fail to do slightly more involved maintenance...

I have to say -- despite my apprehension in investing myself in yet another vehicle (and that apprehension is considerable -- I hate unknowns, and what is a used vehicle but one big variable), I personally feel better towing with something bigger now that my insurance company has spooked the dickens out of me...

Oh -- and the previous owner must've decided "aggressive" tires were a good idea -- I had a hard time listening for issues while driving down the road over the road noise! Fortunately, everything "felt" right (it tracked correctly, no wobble when braking, etc.)...

Anyway, thanks everybody! I love the fact that this forum exists and that everyone's so blastedly helpful!

John

For where I go, aggressive tires are mandatory.

6 inches of mud
down 35 degree slope for 100 feet
off camber
50 degree drop off
moonless overcast night
first time on this road

At least the road was straight and not a turn

I tow the TM with the GMC. My wife tows the ATV trailer with the Chevy. If I make it to the bottom then she follows after me. Otherwise she seeks help.

So far I have not found very many people that want to go where I like to go. But there are some.

Heh - if I thought the Expy could cope with real offroad conditions, I might consider it - but I get the distinct impression it's just not meant to do so.

Doesn't mean I can't let the snow pile up in my driveway every so often though to "test" the 4x4.

[scrubjaysnest]

Originally Posted by PopBeavers

For where I go, aggressive tires are mandatory.

6 inches of mud
down 35 degree slope for 100 feet
off camber
50 degree drop off
moonless overcast night
first time on this road

At least the road was straight and not a turn

I tow the TM with the GMC. My wife tows the ATV trailer with the Chevy. If I make it to the bottom then she follows after me. Otherwise she seeks help.

So far I have not found very many people that want to go where I like to go. But there are some.

We are in the some short list.