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Old 04-23-2009, 09:25 AM   #1
Pittsbrat
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Default Hmm, not impressed so far

After screening all kinds of trailers and motorhomes, the TM seemed the best for us -- on paper. However, on visiting the dealer and checking them out I must admit I was less than impressed. The finishings seemed cheap, the seals at the seams did not seem robust, and they were much smaller inside than I'd anticipated. At every turn, it seemed like it wouldn't stand up to much use. I was hoping it was a collapsing travel trailer, rather than a hard sided popup, if you get the difference.

Because this is an enthusiast forum, you guys know the good points and the bad points and how easy the compromises are to live with. So, please, convince me I'm wrong. Really. I'd kinda like to be wrong because it would save me about $50K.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:31 AM   #2
ng2951
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Well first what is the mission you want your RV to fill? It may be that there are other trailers that fit your mission better.

As far as durability goes, go look at used TMs. For the most part I found that TMs held up rather well. I was very concerned with seals and leaks. The older units I looked at did not seem to have any problems. There were certainly lots of wear marks and color fades (UV does that) but everything operated perfectly.

In the folding trailer arena, TMs interior space are among the best. Until you get to the larger Hi-Los TM interior space and usage is a lot better. Even the largest TM is significantly lighter than modest size Hi-Lo.

The TM is built to be really light. TM uses composite construction. Real pluses there if you ask me. There is not lots of wood since wood is heavy. Exterior-wise I do not see lots of issues. Its no better or worse than most RV builders.

Interior-wise, TM still uses composite construction. This works fine and saves considerable weight, but it will not take the abuse wood would. You cannot put a hot pot on the table top and not risk problems. This type of construction has the same issues any laminated surfaces would, but not hugely so. If I could avoid clipping corners when I store our gun cart in the main aisle I wouldn't have chipped some molding. Also I have to convince Lady, one of our dogs, to stay off the couch ledge we be in tall cotton.

I really regard the Hi-Lo and TM as the near equivalent competitors. Frankly, the only Hi-Lo I really like is the largest Hi-Lo. Forgive me if I wrong, but that Hi-Lo weighs a lot more than the largest TM(3326). I don't see how you can drag that Hi-Lo with a V6, but you can drag 3326 with one.

All folding trailers do have an inherent problem: you have to stow everything before you close them. That gets to be a bit of a drag especially one one-day stays. But if you work from a checklist and stay organized this is less of a problem.

The TMs bathroom is really among the best. Despite people's fussing the recirculating toilet is a great concept. Once you learn how to charge it properly, it works just fine. Its big advantage is that it does not consume water and stores all its waste. If you are dry camping, you do not have to watch drinking water get consumed on every flush or watch the level in the black water tank. This again saves on weight. The downside is learning how to use the chemicals properly and tank charging.

The TM also has one of the better hotwater systems IMHO. It is both electric and gas. What is slick about that is that you can run them together. That greatly reduces recovery time. However, I think most users if they have electricity available run on it rather than gas. I usually preheat the HW before I leave on a trip. That tank is so insulated it will retain for a very long time.

Until you get to the larger Hi-Los, the TM's bathroom configuration is better. You don't have the "wet floor" bath like some trailers do.

One thing I did find out is that the smaller TMs set up better than the big ones. On the large ones the ends tend to sag some. Its a non-issue if you know that, but I didn't. I would have problems getting the rear door jam to align properly. When I started to realize what was happening and read some cryptic comments in forums, I realized that the rear of the trailer was sagging. I was going to install some levels on the rear shell, but I have a small bullet level that I use instead. Works fine, no problem.

I don't think this happens on the smaller trailers.

So if you want a hardside folding trailer, that is light, can be towed by a V6 or less a TM can be the right way to go.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:49 AM   #3
CowboysFan78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ng2951 View Post
The TMs bathroom is really among the best. Despite people's fussing the recirculating toilet is a great concept. Once you learn how to charge it properly, it works just fine. Its big advantage is that it does not consume water and stores all its waste. If you are dry camping, you do not have to watch drinking water get consumed on every flush or watch the level in the black water tank. This again saves on weight. The downside is learning how to use the chemicals properly and tank charging.
I'm interested to hear more about the 'tank charging' that you mention. We bought a 2006 3023 early this year and will take our 1st trip on Mother's Day weekend. We are beyond excited! We come from a pop-up with a cassette toilet, so even the concept of having an actual sewer connection is new to us! I hadn't heard the term tank charging, and would love to hear more so we can be prepared.
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Old 05-01-2009, 04:48 PM   #4
Al-n-Sue
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Default Not as mysterious as it sounds

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I'm interested to hear more about the 'tank charging' that you mention. ...... I hadn't heard the term tank charging, and would love to hear more so we can be prepared.
We also came from a popup with a cassette toilet, so I was a little worried because I didn't understand the recirculating concept either. But we camp with 3 other TM owners, and I thought if they can do it, so can I!

Actually, "charging" is simply the task of putting chemicals in the toilet and filling it with water until it reaches the "charge level" on the gauge. That's it. You're done! The gauge then shows you how full the toilet becomes. The "charge level" is the level where the pump will begin to pump water.

We've had our TM for a year now (3rd owner) and the toilet has been trouble free from the beginning.

We're going out Mother's day as well - but it will be our 2nd this season!

Enjoy.
Alan
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:02 PM   #5
photoadjuster
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Default Recommendation

Word to the wise.

Do not add chemical until the new water has been in the toilet for a couple of hours. The reason is occasionally something gets in the shutoff valve and the water leaks out. Just fill with water and wait. If the pump still circulates water, you know there is no leak and you will never waste a bottle of chemical. If it should leak out, just cycle the valve a few times to clear out whatever is causing it to seep.

Been living in my TM for the last 6 months. Wasted a bottle of chemical several times until it dawned on me not to add the chemical for a while.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:16 PM   #6
ng2951
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Neat tip, but I have not had that problem. But its a good one to have in your quiver...
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:32 AM   #7
fischnet52
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Default Not robust...

Well, I will be anxious to hear/see replies from long time owners, since we just got our 2720SD in October and have yet to get out in it - other than the driveway! Here is food for thought that we considered before joining this fine 'club' of owners.

My thoughts were similar to yours .. a bit mixed when we first looked at the TM at the dealership 4 yrs ago. We had first seen one in Olympic NP, being used by a retired couple who had traveled the US with it and loved it - a 3124 I think. The dealer also carried HiLos and several other 'standard' hardsides and we spent hours going from one into another, repeating a lot of "yeah, buts" to one another. I'm sure the salespeople all talked about the crazy couple! However, we have camped with a large Jayco popup for 12 years (with up to 4 kids) and it is still in very good shape. i.e. we really take care of things we use. Now that we are retired, our consideration was to have something with the shower and toilet, the oven and AC and a little more 'live in' space than with the Jayco, so we could be self-contained in RV parks near/in cities we want to visit, yet still be able to get into the same more remote camp areas we could with the PUP... we spend most of our time outside when we camp, under the awning or at the fire ring or picnic table. I've got a camp table and Coleman propane stove that we will continue to use outside as well. We also wanted to have the towability and mileage we got with the PUP if possible. A major consideration is that we could aways get the 16ft of PUP into a small site, then open it to it's 22 ft and have room ... in sites that you could not get a 24ft trailer into.

I know what you mean about interior size/room, seals and concern about 'standing up' to use, when compared to a full size trailer. My Dad had a 31ft 5th we used and there is no comparison in room, no seals to worry about, etc. But they are two different animals. It depends upon your overall desires and needs.

After discussing these issues and reading through the forum, we decided that it is obvious in many ways that folks with TMs have very similar expectations from their RV. It was also fairly obvious that, while some aspects seem to be not 'robust' enough for a lot of use, there are many folks who have used them extensively and do not see a lot of degradation in the units. My greatest concern is in making sure that I'm careful with the shower walls in takedown, as I see that as the weakest component. All other features are well designed for use and, based upon how our PUP has fared, should last many good years!

I have also talked to owners of older units I've seen in campgrounds who purchased used and new, and have had the same very positive comments from both regarding solid construction and durability of seals and components.

TMs are not for everyone ... This is the best place to help determine if it is a fit for your needs.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:48 AM   #8
Wavery
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We bought our 2720 when it was 10-years-old. It's now over 11-years-old and we camp with is a LOT (usually every other weekend). It has held-up remarkably well. Durability really isn't an issue, unless an owner tows the thing off-road a lot. Ours doesn't leak a drop and we've had it out in some pretty nasty weather. The nice part is that it doesn't have to be stored outdoors, exposed to the aliments 24/7.

The real advantages to the TM is tow-ability and store-ability. If you have room to store a hard-sided trailer and a TV that can handle it, that would certainly be a better choice (IMHO). The $ difference would certainly make up for any fuel savings. You can buy a full sized travel trailer with slide-outs for the price of a TM.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:31 AM   #9
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Based on your opening statement, I am not at all surprised by your conclusions/concerns. You are comparing apples and oranges. I guess the first question you need to ask yourself is " what do you want to do with your RV?" If it is tour the country with all one night stays at various types of facilities, a motor home may be a better choice,If you plan to have it delivered to a long term campsite and go there on weekends, maybe a travel trailer with push outs is right, If you want to get away for a few days or weeks at various places and plan to tow your RV with something less than a 3/4ton truck and still have many of the comforts of home, and not sleep on the ground or under canvas, then the TM is a great choice. There is no perfect RV, even a $500K top of the line motor home has disadvantages. You will not be happy with your choice unless you first determine how and when you plan to use it.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:53 AM   #10
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The real advantages to the TM is tow-ability and store-ability. If you have room to store a hard-sided trailer and a TV that can handle it, that would certainly be a better choice (IMHO). The $ difference would certainly make up for any fuel savings. You can buy a full sized travel trailer with slide-outs for the price of a TM.
I totally agree, and that is the exact reason that we spent 'full-sized TT money' on a 'folding camper.' It is still saving us money when you consider that we pull it with our Nissan Quest van, which we'd have with or without a camper. There isn't any need for us to get a big truck to pull a big TT. I think the TM is a wonderful option in this scenario!
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