TrailManor Owner's Forum  

Go Back   TrailManor Owner's Forum > TrailManor Owners Community > General TrailManor Topics
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-06-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
Andromeda
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Angry 2720SL Blowout -- issues, WOW terrible

With a driver side blowout in June, my 2720SL TM dropped to the road and the plumbing was sheared entirely off. To resolve this problem, I hope to accomplish several changes including:
1. Move the plumbing forward nearer the wheel for improved road clearance
2. Install a 2" lift kit to provide clearance for 15" tires and rims
3. Install 8-ply tires to achieve a load rating of 2,400 lbs. per tire
4. Install skids to avoid dragging trailer components.

Background:
The existing 14-inch tires and wheels supply minimal and marginal load capacity. Considering the loaded trailer, according to the TM certificate reaches 3,956 lbs. the existing tires rated at 1850 lbs per tire in primo condition, with a subtraction of 400 lbs. tongue weight, barely get by in my book (3700-400=3300 lbs. load per pair). This loading fails to account for higher loads in turns or on bumpy roads, or other irregular conditions and lastly, reduced tire capacity after only a couple of years of service.

Unfortunately, the small existing wheel well cannot accomodate a 15" trailer tiire due to width limitations in the well. I tried and failed.

Clearly, the 2-inch lift kit might provide the needed wheel well clearance. In Houston, an I-45 N trailer shop can deliver 8-ply 15-inch wheels and plain rims for $125 each, if you need a cost point.

If clearance issues still exist with the lift kit, that means modification to the wheel well. Let me know if you tried this.

To achieve even more plumbing clearance, I hope to move the larger items closer to the left rear area of the wheel well.

Additionally, to avoid other damage due to blowouts, I plan to mount skid plates bolted to the frame that drags the ground to minimize damage, an item that should cost little. This follows the same concept used on aircraft.

There should be a torsion bar adjustment that would raise the camper by increasing the torque position of the bar. I can't find it. Anyone tried this?

Since I know many others have faced this issue, according a TM mechanic from a defunct shop here, I request any tips and sources for materials for my repairs.

I found the posting by wmiller3 on "Retrofitting the lift kit" very helpful. However, he fails to say where the lift kit was purchased, or I missed it.

At nearly 72, this is hard work for an old man.

Thanks
Andromeda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #2
Joseph
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default From TM. . .

The lift kit comes from TM. But in a pinch you can make one yourself. It is two pieces of box tubing, ( 2 inch ? ) drilled to match the current holes in the TM frame / axle and 4 longer bolts with nuts and washers. Try TM first. Mark everything as you go. I did one side at a time after marking eveything. Had to grind / cut some tack welds but other than that it just takes time. Sorry to hear about the plumbing.... been there.... done that.... Not just TM with that problem. Good luck!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2012, 05:57 PM   #3
wbmiller3
Site Sponsor
 
wbmiller3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Southeast of Houston, Texas
Posts: 1,089
Default

I bought the lift kit from TM just a few weeks before they went into bankruptcy. It was $45.00 plus shipping at the time. I don't remember how much the shipping cost but the total price was under three digits.

Let me know if you have any other questions. I'm in Houston as well.
__________________
Bill
https://spaceflight.training
https://www.facebook.com/wbmiller3
2018 F150 towing 2001 2619; lift kit & 15" wheels
wbmiller3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 08:47 AM   #4
Bill
Site Team
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 10,088
Default

I understand that you are upset that you had a blowout, but the tone of your original post is not acceptable on this board. If you want to discuss problems and solutions, that's fine - that's what this board is for. But name-calling contributes nothing and will not be tolerated.

Please restrain yourself in the future.

Bill
__________________
2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
Bill's Tech Stuff album
Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 09:41 AM   #5
Andromeda
New Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 4
Default Plumbing

Axle capacity is one item I left out that could cause another problem. There should be a marking somewhere on the axle that states this rating. Otherwise, unless someone knows the rated capacity, I will ask TM.

Regarding my name calling, I used very benign names to embarrass the responsible designer, half in jest and half in irritation. After all, I will spend plenty to get this repair completed, one that would be totally unnecessary with proper attention to detail. Still, I could have left it out and I will abide by your rules.

I also hope to warn other owners to allow them the ability to take action before a disaster, one they might avoid. By simply adding a lift kit and 15 inch wheels and 8-ply trailer tires, they reach a combined capacity of 4,800 lbs. on the tires, according to brand and rating, plus 400 lbs. more on the hitch, a totoal of 5,200 lbs. Naturally, tire clearance in the wheel well must function.

Taking the calculation for a standard unit (mine is a 2006 model) a little further regarding tire capacity consider:

With the tires carrying a rated 3,700 lbs. (maximum available in 14" size) and the hitch having 400 lbs., the total available capacity is 4,100 lbs, with the tires in top condition. At a full load of 3,956 lbs, according to the TM certificate, the safety margin is only 144 lbs.

Friends, that margin of 144 lbs. seems quite inadequate to me.

What might save some of us is a travel weight well below 3,956 lbs. Still, do you know your loaded weight?

I saw several replies this morning. Thanks for your assistance.
Andromeda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 11:33 AM   #6
ZekenSpider
TrailManor Master
 
ZekenSpider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 277
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
Axle capacity is one item I left out that could cause another problem. There should be a marking somewhere on the axle that states this rating. Otherwise, unless someone knows the rated capacity, I will ask TM. .................................................. ...............................Taking the calculation for a standard unit (mine is a 2006 model) a little further regarding tire capacity consider:

With the tires carrying a rated 3,700 lbs. (maximum available in 14" size) and the hitch having 400 lbs., the total available capacity is 4,100 lbs, with the tires in top condition. At a full load of 3,956 lbs, according to the TM certificate, the safety margin is only 144 lbs.

Friends, that margin of 144 lbs. seems quite inadequate to me.

What might save some of us is a travel weight well below 3,956 lbs. Still, do you know your loaded weight?

I saw several replies this morning. Thanks for your assistance.
Of course you are generally correct in your analysis of the TM design safety margin. It has been discussed many times on the forum. I'm sure that is why TM decided to go to 15" wheels and tires on all models in 2010. However, in defense of the original TM designers, remember they were trying to get an RV that was very light and easy to tow. As time went on, customers demanded more options and ultimately customers began to overload their TM's (because we always "need" to carry more stuff).

As far as I know, the axle has not changed. The axle tube has a number stamped on it that you can look up on the Dexter Axle web site. It will give you the design weight capacity. I know that TM claims the design axle weight (GAWR) = 3,500# prior to 2004. Since 2004 they claim it is 3,500# plus TM weight not carried by the axle = 3,640#.

Attached is a study I did a year or two ago about TM users actual weight experience on several TM models compared to the factory advertised details.

In addition, it is important to understand that trailer RV tires will not last more than three to five years even if they are not used. Much of the damage to TM waste water plumbing is caused by tire blowout when the tread belt whips around and rips the plumbing off....even if the TM frame does not hit the ground. So...part of your upgrade scheme should include a plumbing protector.

Regards,

Jerry
Attached Files
File Type: pdf TM GTW4a.pdf (57.3 KB, 675 views)
__________________
Essie, Jerry and Lil' Bit the Mini Schnauzer-(now replaced by TWO Mini Schnauzers, Sassy and Schotzi)
2010 TM 3326 loaded for 3 day trip, 4955# GTW, 26 gal. water, 9.5 gal. LP, 530# Tongue Wt., 15" Dual Axle, TST Tire monitor, Hensley Cub Hitch
2004 Suburban 1500, 11,100# CGVW
ZekenSpider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 01:02 PM   #7
Scott O
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post

With a driver side blowout in June, my 2720SL TM dropped to the road and the plumbing was sheared entirely off. To resolve this problem, I hope to accomplish several changes including:

Tanks
Sorry for the mess, I can only imagine what you are going through. Do us a favor please...edit your signature to include info on your TM and TV. It will help us make suggestions when you experience problems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2012, 06:32 PM   #8
grakin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andromeda View Post
Axle capacity is one item I left out that could cause another problem. There should be a marking somewhere on the axle that states this rating. Otherwise, unless someone knows the rated capacity, I will ask TM.
I'm less worried about axle being overloaded then the tires to be honest. But, yes, you shouldn't overload anything.

Quote:
Friends, that margin of 144 lbs. seems quite inadequate to me.
It is, and it's worse if you use a WDH (since it would be easy to transfer weight to the tires) - it's one reason I don't use one. Also, one side of your trailer is likely heavier than the other (appliances, water tanks, etc). Your calculations assume balanced load, which I don't think is accurate.

Quote:
What might save some of us is a travel weight well below 3,956 lbs. Still, do you know your loaded weight?
My 2916 with A/C, awning, dual batteries, and solar panel is 2,860 lbs at the trailer axle, 500 even at the tongue. TM claims 2991 for UVW, so I've got about 400 lbs of extra "stuff" the way I camp (I suspect TM's UVW doesn't include things like full propane bottles or the extra battery). I want to say those weights were with no water (that would add 400+ lbs).
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 10:53 AM   #9
Bill
Site Team
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: The mountains of Scottsdale, AZ, and the beaches of Maine
Posts: 10,088
Default

Andromeda -

Welcome (back!) to the forum. Although you have been a member for 4 years, the post at the top of this thread is your first post. This suggests that you have't spent a lot of time with us, and that is a shame. It might have prevented the problem you experienced. The issues that you brought up have been widely discussed, and there is a lot of information, suggestions, and member experience available here. Most of it is in the Tires forum or the Plumbing forum.

To get you started on the right road, let me mention some misconceptions you may be carrying.

Even if there is a complete tire failure, I don't think the TM can "drop to the road", or drop so low that the plumbing contacts the ground. I have had tire failures on two 2720SLs, and in neither case could the plumbing contact the ground as long as the steel wheel was intact. So although there are legitimate reasons to add a lift kit, keeping the plumbing off the ground is not really one of them. And adding a lift kit will not prevent or reduce the damage you experienced.

A much more likely cause of the destroyed plumbing is that the disintegrating tire threw heavy chunks of rubber tread material into the pipes and valves. At high speed, these chunks are very destructive. I'm assuming you have round wheel wells, as opposed to square, or the damage would have been even worse.

This board has had long discussions about various ways to protect the plumbing from flying rubber. Several suggestions and mods have been made, ranging from heavy mud flaps to steel cages, to deflect the chunks. Not all have been tested under duress, but some have, and they work.

The tire capacity issue, and all the arithmetic involved, have been covered in great detail. Everyone seems to agree that the 14-inch tires are marginal, especially since many of us (including me) tend to pack heavy. As a result, many of us, including the TM factory, have made the switch to 15-inch tires with higher load-bearing capacity. In about 2006, well before the factory switched over, they started adding lifts to all trailers, but if yours is earlier, you may need to install a lift kit to accommodate the taller tire. Again, there is a lot of information about what constitutes a lift kit and how to install it. You found one of the really good tutorials, but far from the only one.

Wheel well width is not (or does not have to be) an issue, though. For example, I went to 15-inch Marathons, and they just popped right into place. I don't think you need to consider altering the wheel-well width, which would be a big job.

All of the trailers that I am aware of already have skids welded to the frame at the rear. I don't think you need to consider adding skids.

The trailer has torsion bars to aid in lifting the shells during setup, but there is no adjustment that will lift the entire camper.

As noted above, no one would recommend overloading any of the running gear. That being said, the members of the forum have experienced many tire failures over the years, but I don't think there has been a single axle failure reported in the dozen years of this forum.

Finally, a mechanic at a defunct trailer shop may know something about TMs (a surprising number of them don't). But the collective membership of this board knows a great deal as well. We welcome your questions and discussion. As was noted above, it will be helpful if you add your TM model and year (and tow vehicle) to your signature line.

A great deal of detailed, up-to-date info has been posted about how to replace your plumbing. With any luck, this will get you started in the right direction.

Bill
__________________
2020 2720QS (aka 2720SL)
2014 Ford F-150 4WD 5.0L
Bill's Tech Stuff album
Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #10
mjlaupp
Site Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Downsville, Louisiana
Posts: 1,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
Andromeda -

Welcome (back!) to the forum. Although you have been a member for 4 years, the post at the top of this thread is your first post. This suggests that you have't spent a lot of time with us, and that is a shame. It might have prevented the problem you experienced. The issues that you brought up have been widely discussed, and there is a lot of information, suggestions, and member experience available here. Most of it is in the Tires forum or the Plumbing forum.....
Andromeda -

Access to the Tires and Plumbing forums requires that you become a Site Sponsor. You had access as a trial member for the first 30 days after you first joined the TMO forums. That access has long expired. All information that you seek and more is available in the Technical forums. For information see:
Site Sponsor Info: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=1064
How to Become a Site Sponsor: http://www.trailmanorowners.com/foru...ead.php?t=6107
__________________
Mike Laupp

2013 Jayco Eagle Premier 351RLTS 5er - Honda 2000i x2 w ext. run tank

2017 F350 King Ranch ultimate CCLB SRW 6.7L V8 TD Fx4 BakFlip F1 & BakBox

TM History: '97 2720, '02 2720SL, '03 2720SL, '04 3326K. 2001 - 2012 yrs owned.

1990 Isuzu Trooper II 283 V6
mjlaupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
plumbing protection


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright 2022 Trailmanor Owners Page.