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Old 10-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #1
Bill
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Default Weight - one more data point

On our just-completed cross country trip, I decided to get my rig weighed again - I haven't done it in a long time. I found a CAT Scale, and pulled onto it. For $9, the scale weighed all three axles separately and simultanously, and printed them out.

The TM had all of our usual travelling and camping stuff - food, clothes, dishes, tools - but nothing out of the ordinary. We have an air conditioner and awning, which are the heavy options. There was 6 gallons of water in the water heater, but no water in any of the other tanks. One propane tank was empty, the other half full.

At the time of weighing, the spring bars were raised - I didn't re-weigh with the springbars released. The weight on the trailer axle was 3400 pounds. Since I have 15" tires (thanks, Bobby!) this is a pretty safe weight from the point of view of tires. With the OEM 14" tires, it would have been acceptable but without much margin.

Working backward through the usual WDH assumptions, I conclude that the total (gross) trailer weight was 3750 pounds. This is why I wouldn't even consider a tow vehicle rated at 3500 pounds. The same calculations show the raw hitch weight (no WDH) to be 525 pounds, which is why a WDH is needed on all but the huskiest vehicles.

This is just one data point. It represents my TM, packed the way I pack it, and with my WDH and my adjustment. So take it for what it is worth. But it seems to be reasonably in line with weights reported by others. So in summary
. Total (gross) trailer weight 3750 pounds
. Hitch weight (with no WDH) 525 pounds
. TM axle weight (with WDH) 3400 pounds

Incidentally, in previous discussions of weight, several members (especially HarveyRV) have repeatedly emphasized the importance of knowing your rig's weight. Wayne, you hit it right on the head! In addition to finding my TM's weight, I discovered that I was exceeding the tow vehicle's rear axle rating by about 300 pounds. Bad boy, Bill! On our cross-country migrations, we take a ton of non-camping stuff and load it all into the Explorer's wayback. This time was especially heavy, since we are closing one house. But in the future I will be more aware, and pack differently.

Bill
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:30 AM   #2
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Thanks for the report, Bill. If your toilet had a fresh charge, your other propane tank was full, and your 20 gal fresh water tank was full, you would be right at about ~4,000 lbs. That seems to be the magic number for a TM ready to camp.

Dave
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
In addition to finding my TM's weight, I discovered that I was exceeding the tow vehicle's rear axle rating by about 300 pounds. Bad boy, Bill! On our cross-country migrations, we take a ton of non-camping stuff and load it all into the Explorer's wayback. This time was especially heavy, since we are closing one house. But in the future I will be more aware, and pack differently.

Bill
Just curious, where does 300# overload on the TV rear axle place you relative to the tire ratings? (and do you tow with them at max rated inflation?)
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:35 PM   #4
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Mr. Adventure -

On the CAT Scale, the tow vehicle's rear axle weight was 3680 pounds.

The tires are OK. The sidewall rating is 1984 lbs @ 44 psi, or 3968 pounds for the pair. I run them at 40 psi when trailering, so I'm sure the rating is a bit less. Not much margin, but I don't think they were past their rating.

The GAWR-Rear on the doorpost sticker is 3400 pounds, so that is where my problem lies. I won't do that again.

Incidentally, running the tires at 40 psi produces overinflation wear as expected. But with the trailer behind, vehicle handling feels much more crisp and sure, so I do it. When the trip is done, I drop them back to a normal 34 psi, per the doorpost sticker.

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Old 10-26-2010, 06:03 PM   #5
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I find that "overinflation wear" results in a lot longer wear than the underinflation they sometimes recommend on the doorposts.

For some reason, I'm happier with an overloaded axle than overloaded tires, but I'm not sure why. Maybe I'm thinking that tires are more likely than axles to fail suddenly, or maybe I'm thinking that there are so many assumptions on the inside of the axle calculations that rubber calculations provide an extra cushion.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:57 PM   #6
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In addition to finding my TM's weight, I discovered that I was exceeding the tow vehicle's rear axle rating by about 300 pounds.
Yes, a lot of us have been surprised at how close or over the TV's GVWR we are. Trailmanor's tend to put a high % of the trailer weight on their tongue.
17% w/o WDH, 11% with WDH, in my case. This helps with the handling, but sure reduces what you can carry in the TV.

There's a huge difference between many TV's payload (~1100# in my case) and towing capacity (6500#). Of course the towing capacity depends on the trailer's axle and brakes functioning as they should!

Ok, I'm going off-topic here, but this really brings out the difference between trailers and campers. In our trip out west we saw a lot of over-weighted TV/camper combos. And those that looked reasonable were running on one ton trucks and still had a lot less living space than any Trailmanor.

When I was younger I had a half-ton pickup with a camper. Because the truck sagged so much, the dealer suggested an additional leaf in the rear springs. One trip across the continent and the rear bearings were shot.

To my mind a trailer makes a lot more sense if you want any space at all.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by brulaz View Post
Yes, a lot of us have been surprised at how close or over the TV's GVWR we are. Trailmanor's tend to put a high % of the trailer weight on their tongue.
17% w/o WDH, 11% with WDH, in my case. This helps with the handling, but sure reduces what you can carry in the TV.

There's a huge difference between many TV's payload (~1100# in my case) and towing capacity (6500#). Of course the towing capacity depends on the trailer's axle and brakes functioning as they should!

Ok, I'm going off-topic here, but this really brings out the difference between trailers and campers. In our trip out west we saw a lot of over-weighted TV/camper combos. And those that looked reasonable were running on one ton trucks and still had a lot less living space than any Trailmanor.

When I was younger I had a half-ton pickup with a camper. Because the truck sagged so much, the dealer suggested an additional leaf in the rear springs. One trip across the continent and the rear bearings were shot.

To my mind a trailer makes a lot more sense if you want any space at all.
Brulaz,

Back in the 60's I had an F100 P/U. I bought an overhead camper, and the trip home had the headlights pointing up at a 45 degree angle.

I put big overload springs on it. That levelled it up, with no swaying problem. However, on one trip a steel rear wheel split!! Only happened once.

Years later I bought a 96 F150. I put airbags on it for towing, then I spotted a used overhead camper at a super-bargain price. It was lighter than most, so I was right at GVWR with camper, contents, DW, and gas. I drove that thing back and forth accross the US and up into Canada. No problems at all. One thing I did was to always make sure that my tires had adequate capacity to handle the weight, and ran them at maximum pressure. I never had any problems at all.

I always give swaying truck campers a wide berth.

Tom
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Old 10-28-2010, 01:35 PM   #8
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Thanks for the report, Bill. If your toilet had a fresh charge, your other propane tank was full, and your 20 gal fresh water tank was full, you would be right at about ~4,000 lbs. That seems to be the magic number for a TM ready to camp.

Dave

I have the 40 gallon water tank. 20 gallons at a little over 8 pounds per gallon is another 169 pounds for me. That might explain my estimated total weight of 4,100 pounds for a 2720. Others have reported 4,000 pounds.

The other 38 gallons of water (317 pounds) I take is in the truck, as far forward as I can load it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:07 PM   #9
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My most recent weighing showed 4160 lbs for my 2720. There was still air in a couple of the cabinets so it had room to get heavier. I did have it completely filled with water and the refrigerator was fully stocked with drinks and food too
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:15 PM   #10
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Default Knox Jere

Help! We are fairly new at this trailering thing. We are trying to get the weights needed to determine if we need a WDH. We went to CAT Scales in our town (Knoxville, TN) a couple of months ago, but failed to get one important weight. We did not get the front axle of the TV, rear axle of the TV and trailer axle. We hitched up again yesterday and went back to get these weights. We were told that our trailer is not long enough and that they can only weigh our vehicle (one weight) and the trailer. We called today to clarify what we needed and were told that "if they couldn't do it yesterday, we can't do it today": Called a second CAT scale and were told the same thing. It seems others have been able to get these three weights. What are we doing wrong? We have a 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee and a 2006 2720. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Jere & Paula

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2006 TM 2720.
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