Pilot? Traverse? MDX? Confused newbie

[larrylifelines]

I have a new (to me) 2008 2720SL that I'm itching to use next spring. Till then, I have to get a TV, and I've been reading everything I can for relevant advice--not just here on the TMO forum (which is incredibly helpful), but at Consumer Reports (where I'm fortunate to have a friend and former colleague at their auto-testing site), RV.net and other sites, and friends and relatives who know more than I do about towing.

I thought DW and I had pretty much settled on a Honda Pilot. Its 4,500 pound towing capacity seemed adequate for even a loaded 2720, but the more I read and heard about wheelbase, stopping, and controlling issues, the more doubt I had. I know a decent-size pickup is the best answer, but, thing is, the TV will also (probably) be DW's day-to-day transportation as well, and she hasn't yet reached the point of seeing herself driving to the supermarket in a truck. Believe me, it's been a major accomplishment for her to buy into owning an SUV, coming from a lifetime of sedans (including her present 2004 Accord).

So we've been looking at towing-capacity charts, and as of yesterday, decided that maybe the Chevy Traverse--TC 5,200 pounds, WB 119 inches--was the way to go. We'd never considered a GM vehicle, but, with GM's improving quality and reliability, maybe it's time to do so. We may try to test drive one this week. They're pretty pricey, having been around only a couple of years, but we may have to bite the car-payments bullet to get something with enough muscle for our trailer.

I know folks here have asked about "what's the best TV" for years, but most of the responses lean toward "what's the best pickup". so I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone else tow with a Traverse? Do you folks with a Pilot recommend it for towing? Help!

Btw, we live in New York's Hudson valley, but will want, at some point, to head all over the country, so mountain-climbing is a definite factor.

Thanks for any advice...and if anyone in the northeast has a suitable TV for sale, let me know.

[I've since bought a 2009 Traverse. Thanks for the advice. I'll post my experiences with this TV once the season gets going in the spring. -kf]

[Bill]

Seems to me you have a pretty good handle on it. My input is this, but there will be many others, just as valid as mine.

A good tow vehicle needs to have a decent tow rating. There is no universal agreement, but through much discussion, this board has seemed to have settled on 5000 pounds as a "decent" rating for the flatlands and the mountains in the east. Some people go lighter; you will probably want more if you plan to go to the high altitudes and steep grades in the west, or if you plan to carry a lot of cargo, as Pop Beavers does. By the way, how many of you will be camping? Just you and your wife?

As you noted, wheelbase is an important element of control. There are rules of thumb, and someone will quote one, but for a 2720 TM, 119 inches should be good. My Explorer at 114 inches sometimes seems a bit short, but never yet dangerously so.

You really should have a factory-installed tow package. You can add some, but not all, of the elements of a tow package as aftermarket items.

There is no real requirement to go with a pickup truck, as long as the needs above are met. The cargo space in the wayback of a truck or SUV is mighty nice, though. You probably can't fit everything into the storage spaces in the TM.

By the way, when we bought our first Explorer, my wife didn't want to drive it. "Too big!" "I could never park it!" "No way elegant!" "I'd be embarrassed!" And so forth. Now I can't get her out of the Explorer, and I am stuck with her little Saab. Be perpared for this, if only mentally.

By the way again, "tow rating" is a pretty inexact measure of the capability of the vehicle, being tinged with manufacturer's hype, as well as asterisks and smoke. There are better ways, and more elegant ways, to determine the suitability of a vehicle, involving arcane terms like GWR, GAWR, GCWR, and so forth. We have members who are quite comfortable with those, and you will hear from them. But "tow rating" is usually a good indicator.

Bill

My understanding is that you have to get the factory installed tow package to get a 5200# tow rating on the Traverse. It's only 2000# otherwise. EDIT: And that tow package adjusts the shift points of your 6speed auto.

With the tow package, my only concern would be the tongue weight. I think the traverse hitch can only handle 500# (no WDH) or 600# (with WDH, they assume the WDH hitch takes 100# off the hitch?). Trailmanors tend to have high tongue weights, so I would just verify that your loaded trailmanor's tongue weight is less than 500#.

The Traverse's GVWR versus curb weight is looks pretty good. I think you have more payload capacity than my Tacoma.

[larrylifelines]

Thanks, Bill and brulaz, for the helpful comments. To answer Bill, it will be just DW and I in the TrailManor, which should help with weight issues (especially if I can jog more and eat less). Tongue weight concerns me, too, and a WDH will definitely be part of our setup.
We'll definitely check out the Traverse.

Originally Posted by brulaz

My understanding is that you have to get the factory installed tow package to get a 5200# tow rating on the Traverse. It's only 2000# otherwise. EDIT: And that tow package adjusts the shift points of your 6speed auto.

With the tow package, my only concern would be the tongue weight. I think the traverse hitch can only handle 500# (no WDH) or 600# (with WDH, they assume the WDH hitch takes 100# off the hitch?). Trailmanors tend to have high tongue weights, so I would just verify that your loaded trailmanor's tongue weight is less than 500#.

The Traverse's GVWR versus curb weight is looks pretty good. I think you have more payload capacity than my Tacoma.

I own a 2720, so my batteries are on the front. I think the 2720SL has the batteries in the rear. That will help a bit with tongue weight.

I carry 40 gallons of water. I think you have only a 20 gallon tank. Keep it empty when towing and that will help.

Try not to load heavy stuff in the rear of the TV. Floor of second row if there is room will get some of the weight forward, reducing rear sag. As far back as you can in the TM. This is likely the tub/shower, then the bathroom floor. This will get some weight behind the TM axle, lightening then tongue.

Be careful about loading too much heavy stuff in the TM, because you begin to risk overloading the axle or tires.

Like someone just said, almost no one will carry as much stuff as I do. Here is what I think I know.

The one time I weighed my TM it was 3380 pounds on the TM axle. I was loaded as heavy I thought I ever could, short of taking a rock collection with me. It was 3380, 120 pounds below the axle limit.

I never weighed the tongue. Assuming 600 pounds for the tongue then I am at 3980 pounds total. I usually claim that my guess is 4100 pounds. One of these days I will weigh the tongue.

fwiw, I was on some scales for base rock yesterday. My truck with no cargo, no people, half a tank of gas weighs 6520 pounds.

[Mr. Adventure]

Originally Posted by larrylifelines

I have a new (to me) 2008 2720SL that I'm itching to use next spring. Till then, I have to get a TV, and I've been reading everything I can for relevant advice--not just here on the TMO forum (which is incredibly helpful), but at Consumer Reports (where I'm fortunate to have a friend and former colleague at their auto-testing site), RV.net and other sites, and friends and relatives who know more than I do about towing.

I thought DW and I had pretty much settled on a Honda Pilot. Its 4,500 pound towing capacity seemed adequate for even a loaded 2720, but the more I read and heard about wheelbase, stopping, and controlling issues, the more doubt I had. I know a decent-size pickup is the best answer, but, thing is, the TV will also (probably) be DW's day-to-day transportation as well, and she hasn't yet reached the point of seeing herself driving to the supermarket in a truck. Believe me, it's been a major accomplishment for her to buy into owning an SUV, coming from a lifetime of sedans (including her present 2004 Accord).

So we've been looking at towing-capacity charts, and as of yesterday, decided that maybe the Chevy Traverse--TC 5,200 pounds, WB 119 inches--was the way to go. We'd never considered a GM vehicle, but, with GM's improving quality and reliability, maybe it's time to do so. We may try to test drive one this week. They're pretty pricey, having been around only a couple of years, but we may have to bite the car-payments bullet to get something with enough muscle for our trailer.

I know folks here have asked about "what's the best TV" for years, but most of the responses lean toward "what's the best pickup". so I guess what I'm asking is, does anyone else tow with a Traverse? Do you folks with a Pilot recommend it for towing? Help!

Btw, we live in New York's Hudson valley, but will want, at some point, to head all over the country, so mountain-climbing is a definite factor.

Thanks for any advice...and if anyone in the northeast has a suitable TV for sale, let me know.

Like you, the TV has to be DW-acceptable for us. We've got 100k miles on our Highlander, and it's never needed a repair (other than the scheduled maintenance and a brake job, of course). The new ones have a 5000# tow rating, and with Toyota that means there really is a way to tow 5000# (most of the mfrs tell you to subtract the tow vehicle load from the tow rating, and your real tow rating is what's left).

A weight distributing hitch is mandatory, of course, with a hitch receiver rated for 500# minimum.

Let us know what you decide!

There is a lot of good experience on this board, and most people have had good experiences with their tow vehicles. You might try a search on the names of your prospective vehicles in this forum, and then contacting some of the people who tow with them.

[Mr. Adventure]

Most of our owner reports tell us that their tongue weights are very near 500# or beyond. Class III trailer hitches are rated for a maximum of 500# tongue weight, and Class IV trailer hitches are not commercially available for anything less than full sized pickups and vans.

There are two possible conclusions to draw from this:

1) Everyone needs to get rid of their old Explorers, Highlanders, and Astros so that they can buy heavy duty pickups so that they can install class IV hitch receivers.

Or:

2) The collective experience of the 95% of us who have been using moderately overloaded Class III trailer hitch receivers without incident suggests that it seems to work out OK with our weight distributing hitches and TrailManors on our Class III hitch receivers.

[larrylifelines]

Thanks to all for the helpful and useful replies and comments (I'm the OP). A few points: My Consumer Reports friend does tow his 3,200# Airstream with an Odyssey, and says that TV's 3,500# tow rating is quite conservative. So I would consider the Odyssey, except that, just as she doesn't want a truck, my DW doesn't want a minivan. Now, I could cajole and argue, but it's taken a major mind-shift for her to accept becoming a part owner of a TT. We've taken a few one-week trips in rented Class A's, but it's only recently that she has embraced the ownership concept. So I don't want to push her into buying a TV she won't be happy with.

For now, because of the wheelbase, the decent tow rating, and the DW-friendly creature comforts, the Chevy Traverse is the front runner. I talked to a dealer today, and, for the first time, found a car dealer who actually knew what she was talking about relative to trailer towing. So that's another plus. Looking forward to driving one, and, down the road, to towing my TM out the driveway and throughout this incredible country.

[T and C]

Ken,

I recently went through the new TV experience. In my case the main requirement from the DW was room for grandkids. Otherwise my good ol'e 96 F150 5.8 standard cab was perfectly adequate.

Now, I was once offered the chance to re-enlist in the USAF with a promise of Loadmaster School and flight status if I did. (I did not!) The loadmaster's job on a transport plane is to calculate loading to see if: a. it will get off the ground; b. that it is balanced if and when it does. They had to use a specially designed slide rule device to do this, back in the day.

When I read the discussions about loads and weights and limits with Pilots and Highlanders and such, I just do not want to go there. Sounds too much like living right at the limit. Plus I didn't go to Loadmaster School.

When I read discussions about Sienna's and that sort of vehicle, I mentally cringe at the thought of major components letting go on mountain roads.

I want wide safety margins. I want to hook and and go without worrying about losing the trailer...or worse. I want to throw stuff in the bed and not worry about it until I get there.

Sooo...I chose an F150 crew cab with factory tow pkg. In addition, it is getting its air bags installed today. It has a 9200 pound tow rating, and I figure that my 3023 won't weigh over 5000 if I load everything I could think of in it.

These modern crew cab p/u trucks are quiet, a dream to drive on the road, and powerful. On mine, the computer tells me that I am averaging 17.4 mpg even after a trip up to Big Bear Lake, (7200 ft above sea level), with 4 passengers and the bed filled with a church group's luggage, plus a couple of hundred miles of city driving. Not towing though.

Yes, its big, 5100 empty weight. But if safety, comfort, and worry free loading matter, its worth it. Most DW's like safety and comfort, especially if there are kids/grandkids involved. A test drive at a local dealer's might open new possibilities. Just a thought.

My .02

Tom

Originally Posted by larrylifelines

...just as she doesn't want a truck, my DW doesn't want a minivan. Now, I could cajole and argue, but it's taken a major mind-shift for her to accept becoming a part owner of a TT.
So I don't want to push her into buying a TV she won't be happy with.

Ken,
Let me first say that I fully understand trying to get a TV that DW will be comfortable with daily, but let me share our personal experience...
I work approximately 20 miles from home, while my wife works about 4 miles away. Thus she has always driven our "gas guzzler" (basically the larger of our two vehicles) going back 30yrs.
When we first got married I owned a Ford E250 full size van, with large AT tires, 351 v8. I had put a towing cam, headers, dual exhaust, so it even sounded like a beast. She had a little Toyota station wagon.
For many years, she drove my van even when she was 8 months pregnant.... because she fell in love with it...eventually becoming "her van" as she used to call it.
We now own a Civic sedan and the Astro. She drives the Astro for gas reasons, but also actually prefers it over the Civic.

The moral of the story is if you do your homework and take your time choosing a TV, it will work out even if it's not what you think it should be now.
Without going into details on size, brand, etc, my advice is to read the many posts here...there are several on "types" of TV.
You are obviously a SUV guy. I am a "van guy", but by listening to some of the guys here, I'm now considering a pickup (something I would have laughed at a few years ago).
Plan not only what you're going to do with the TM now, but how you may use it in the future. You may now only go a few hundred miles to state parks, while in the future the trips may become several thousand miles over different kinds of terrain, etc. Try to keep an open mind, and above all, BE SAFE!