Wdh

[Bill]

Originally Posted by brulaz

My Elkmont is 620# and we use the 800# bars cinched to the max.

Brulaz -

As the little robot used to say, "DANGER! DANGER!" Your 800-pound rating is fine, but the spring bars should never be cinched to the max, or anywhere near it. You need to lower the tips of the springbars by tilting the ball mount backward. When the tips are lower, you will still get the same amount of lift from the springbars, but there will be 5 or 6 links between the lift hooks and the springbar tips.

Why does it matter? As long as you are going straight ahead, it doesn't. But what happens when you turn a corner? The tow vehicle and the TM are no longer in a straight line. One side of the ballmount (and its springbar) have moved forward, ahead of the TM, and the other side of the ballmount (and its springbar) have moved backward, toward the TM. On both sides, the tip of the springbar is no longer directly below the lift hook. But if you have chained the tip of the springbar directly to the lift hook, with no room for motion - well, something is going to give. And the result will not be pretty. Most likely it will rip the lift hook off the TM frame, but it could break the ballmount.

On the other hand, if there are 5 or 6 links of chain between the hook and the tip, they can move relative to each other. You really gotta fix that.

Bill

Thanks for that Bill. I have always had about 5 links below the hook because I read that was the way to do it, but I never understood why! Another gap in my education filled.

Not to worry, Bill.

By "cinched to the max" I meant that there is the manufacturer's required minimum # of links (5) between the spring bar tip and hook on the frame.

[Lesherp]

After reading all of your advise it seems that 800 lb. might be the way to go. Less and it may not do the job and more and it could make my TV ride stiff. If anyone sees a flaw in my analysis please comment.

I was thinking about getting one on line as that seems to be where you get the best prices these days but as I have a swing hitch I need to know for sure what will fit.

If someone with a 2720 and a 800 lb. hitch could tell me what they have I would appreciate it.

[Bill]

The general consensus of the group has been that 800 pounds is about right. There is no hard and fast rule, though, and certainly no magic value that is absolutely right, while every other value is absolutely wrong. We did have one member who did not like the feeling with 600 pound bars - but I think we have others who use 600 pound bars and are quite satisfied.

So my advice is not to spend a lot of time worrying.

Bill

[Wavery]

They shouldn't feel a "Stiffer ride". However, a properly rated WDH should provide some spring to the WDH spring bars which would give a little bit of the feel of towing.

I wasn't insinuating that you were recommending any particular WDH....... It was just your closing statement, "So my advice is not to spend a lot of time worrying." that I thought might be worth considering. You are right though..... I wouldn't spend any time "Worrying", however, I would recommend spending some time studying the effects of a WDH if I were in the market for one to use on my TM. The problem is, most of what anyone can find is put out by the manufacturers of the WDH's and they sure won't go into detail about the shock-loading aspect of their product.

Very basically speeking.......a 600# WDH should put a maximum of 200# (1/3) back to the trailer axle. A 1200# WDH might put as much as 400# additional weight back to the trailer. If the tires, axle, suspension, frame etc can handle the extra weight.....no big deal. However, in some cases, that extra 200# could be a big issue.

It's just a shame that TM didn't recognize the need for the 15" tires sooner. It sure has thrown a monkey wrench into this whole WDH thing. Those of you with 15" tires have far less to be concerned about, that's for sure.

I think that, as camper manufacturers try to fill the demand for lighter and lighter trailers, this may become an issue that the WDH manufacturers will have to address. Some manufacturers of lighter trailers have strictly forbidden the use of a WDH with their trailers. They recognize the fact that the shock-loading from a WDH might actually bend the "C" channel frames on their trailers.

Wayne, I could feel the difference between the 1200 lb. and 800 lb. bars on my 700 lb. tongue weight Surveyor. To get the same lift with my 800 lb. bars, I had to tilt the ball mount back more (I think 2 notices). The 800 lb. bars are noticeable bent, where you couldn't see it on the 1200 lb. bars. As I go down the road, the 800 lb. bars are taking the slack by being more springy....if that makes sense......and the back of the truck doesn't feel as stiff. I would compare it to the ride in a 1/2 ton truck to a 3/4 ton truck........the springs are still there in a 3/4 ton truck, but the ride is not as "cushy".

[Lesherp]

I finally got my garage cleaned out enough today to see that the TM will fit under the door with about 3 1/2 inches to spare, It looks to me like I already have the lift kit so I think I will be able to get 15" tires next week, but will have to see if I will still have enough clearance. That makes me feel better about the idea of using a WDH.

When I brought the TM home the only thing I noticed different in the handling of my TV was that on a steep downgrade I could tell that some weight had come off my front wheels. It was barely noticeable but the TM was almost empty.

If I can get the 15" tires I will probable get a WDH. If not, I think I will wait and see how it tows loaded. It seems from the discussion that WDH's with 14" tires could be a contributing factor in blowouts people are experiencing.

Thanks for all of the advice over the last couple of weeks you folks have been a wonderful resource for me.

[Keith Wire]

Roger,

I recently went from 14" to 15" tires and I believe it increased my total height by less than 1".

I am not sure I agree with the implication in this statement:

It seems from the discussion that WDH's with 14" tires could be a contributing factor in blowouts people are experiencing.

Yes, there have been problems with 14" tires on TMs. But I would never pull my TM with my Explorer without a weight distributing hitch. Trailmanor has always recommended a WD hitch.

Have you seen and studied the weight results posted by Mark Hokie here?

Everyone has to study the all the variables when pulling a trailer, but for me, the benefits of a balacned load far outweigh any possible disadvantages.


Keith

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Lesherp

When I brought the TM home the only thing I noticed different in the handling of my TV was that on a steep downgrade I could tell that some weight had come off my front wheels. It was barely noticeable but the TM was almost empty.

If I can get the 15" tires I will probable get a WDH. If not, I think I will wait and see how it tows loaded. It seems from the discussion that WDH's with 14" tires could be a contributing factor in blowouts people are experiencing.

Thanks for all of the advice over the last couple of weeks you folks have been a wonderful resource for me.

I think that you may have missed something.

Although the WDH does contribute to higher dead weight and higher shock loading on the trailer tires and it seems obvious to ME that this MAY contribute to some extent (not sure how much) to early tire failure on tires that exceed their weight limit under load, I would highly recommend that you use a WDH on your set-up with or without 15" tires.

It's just a matter of choosing the better of the 2 evils. I think that loosing control of the front brakes and steering have far more dire consequences than blowing out a trailer tire. If you can feel the light front end while braking on dry roads......you are in danger.......When you brake on that same road when it's wet, the front tires may loose their grip and the vehicle may likely loose all steering control.......give me a flat tire over that any day......especially going down a grade.

I don't advocate not using a WDH on the TM for any vehicle. However, long wheel base vehicles like mine can handle the lack of WDH better than shorter WB vehicles.

My opologies if my comments may have mis-led anyone else.