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Old 05-17-2022, 07:51 AM   #21
Larryjb
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I tend to think the same thing. BUT ...

The thing that makes me nervous is that in order to grind the top of the stub, you probably have to pull the stub all the way out of the bracket. Then, after you grind, you have to insert the stub back into the bracket. With the shell raised all the way up, there isn't a lot of tension in the torsion bar, but it is still not clear to me that re-inserting it would be easy. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, or daring enough, but I really don't want to get involved with removing the other end of the torsion bar from the lift arm. I need advice from someone who has actually changed out a torsion bar.

On the other hand, if you choose to grind the top of the hole in the bracket, you could just pull the stub part way out of the bracket - pulling it out of the side with the adjustment hole (A in Wavery's pic), but leaving it poked through the other side (B in Wavery's pic). This might make it easier to re-insert. However, grinding inside the hole would have to be done with a rotary file, as Wavery mentioned, rather than a true grinder. Maybe not so easy?

Bill
Just so you know, that metal is HARD! I had to grind the hole on the corner bracket to accommodate my larger torsion bar. I don't see how I could have been able to do it by hand. I had to use my dremmel tool, and pretty much wore down my grinding bit.
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Old 05-17-2022, 09:31 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Bill View Post
I tend to think the same thing. BUT ...

The thing that makes me nervous is that in order to grind the top of the stub, you probably have to pull the stub all the way out of the bracket. Then, after you grind, you have to insert the stub back into the bracket. With the shell raised all the way up, there isn't a lot of tension in the torsion bar, but it is still not clear to me that re-inserting it would be easy. Maybe I'm just not imaginative enough, or daring enough, but I really don't want to get involved with removing the other end of the torsion bar from the lift arm. I need advice from someone who has actually changed out a torsion bar.

On the other hand, if you choose to grind the top of the hole in the bracket, you could just pull the stub part way out of the bracket - pulling it out of the side with the adjustment hole (A in Wavery's pic), but leaving it poked through the other side (B in Wavery's pic). This might make it easier to re-insert. However, grinding inside the hole would have to be done with a rotary file, as Wavery mentioned, rather than a true grinder. Maybe not so easy?

Bill
Hey Bill I think I have some info you might be interested in. Yesterday I finally got around to trying to tighten the tension on the torsion bars. Had to go rent the 29mm socket from auto zone. I do have a 1000lbft impact which made the job easy as those bolts are on there tight after 16 years. I did have to use a wire wheel to clean the threads and penetrating oil to get the bolt to turn easy. Good news for me I was able to tighten the front a bit which solved my problem. Bad news is this will be the last adjustment before needing to replace those torsion bars. I actually have more to go on the front. No more in the middle 4 and no more in the rear. But those are all ok for me.

So to you questions. The front and rears there is some room but the middle torsion ends are touching the bottom of the TM or very close to it. I do have first hand experience with grinding my tongue jack hole on the TM. I used my high RPM drill with a sanding wheel. It was very easy. Make sure you use a smaller diam. wheel than the hole and you can potentially take off some good amount of material. Because of clearance issues in some pocket stops you will have no choice but to grind the bar itself as grinding the hole will bring the bar in contact with the bottom of the TM. Lastly backing out those 29mm bolts all the way I could move the torsion in the hole. They were NOT completely loose but loose enough that I could.move them slightly. I would think taking them in or out would not be too difficult but some may need some force and perhaps just a little push up from a floor jack to get them in the first hole. Once in a 2-4 lb hammer should do the trick to get them seated all way in. Hope that helps. I hope not to have to ever do this that's why I checked and I think I bought myself about 16 years with the adjustment I was able to make.

One last note. TM used bigger diameter bars in front and back but smaller diameter bars in the middle. This was a mistake the whole point is to be able to make these adjustments. Because the middle bars are smaller diameter they DO NOT offer the same torsion as the outer front and back. This is the reason the middle bolts in the pocket stops are already taken in all the way and still have some more on the fronts. The fronts and rear could have been 1/8 wider diameter which would also insure lifetime tension for this application.

BTW. I would bet a good rotary with a cut off wheel would cut those torsion bar tops. Even my dremmel would do it and is a small enough tool to get in to some of the tighter areas. Honestly... that's the way I would go if I ever have to in the future. HOWEVER you WILL need longer 29mm bolts to push up those bars to the sky in those pocket stops because there is no more threads to tighten further with the existing bolts.
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Old 05-18-2022, 07:07 AM   #23
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coralcruze -

That was lots of good info in your post - thank you for putting it up.

Question: you reported that for the tongue jack hole, you used a high RPM drill with a sanding wheel. Tell me more about what kind of sanding wheel / sand paper you used. What kind of grit, and how big? I would expect that the frame members would be softer steel than the torsion bars, and Larryjb reports that the metal is really hard, so I suspect that a quarter sheet of 220 grit out of my wood-finishing kit would not be up to the job.

As for the ability to re-insert the stub of the torsion bar into the bracket, I was glad to read that the fit was a bit loose. As you suggested, a bottle jack and a mallet might be enough to pop it back into the opening.

Several elements of the situation seem to be a bit different on different TM years/models. On mine, there are still several threads left on the adjuster bolt, so no problem there. And the adjusters on the middle bars are set at (or very close to) zero.

It is expected that different diameter bars will be used at the different locations. The center location of each shell seems to require less lift than the ends, probably because the end lifters have to lift the end walls in addition to the roof and sidewalls, while the center lifters don't have to lift an end wall. So smaller bars are appropriate. The trick for the factory is to use the right diameter bar at each location. We've had a couple reports (including mine) that on 2020 2720QS, the bar used at the front of the front shell is not quite adequate, and the next size up would have been a better choice.

Thanks for your inputs.

Bill
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Old 05-18-2022, 08:44 AM   #24
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.... It is expected that different diameter bars will be used at the different locations. The center location of each shell seems to require less lift than the ends, probably because the end lifters have to lift the end walls in addition to the roof and sidewalls, while the center lifters don't have to lift an end wall. So smaller bars are appropriate.
Bill
This got me thinking, thanks. In my own 2619, the front shell bars near the "center" of the TM do most of the lifting for the Air Conditioner, but their adjusting screws are roughly 3/4 "loose", in exactly the way you described. AFAICT, my front shell sets are the same size (diameter). My 2619 might have been built with the wrong pair of front-most bars - a second set of "middle" bars, rather than a larger-diameter "front-most" pair.
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Old 05-18-2022, 10:03 AM   #25
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coralcruze -

That was lots of good info in your post - thank you for putting it up.

Question: you reported that for the tongue jack hole, you used a high RPM drill with a sanding wheel. Tell me more about what kind of sanding wheel / sand paper you used. What kind of grit, and how big? I would expect that the frame members would be softer steel than the torsion bars, and Larryjb reports that the metal is really hard, so I suspect that a quarter sheet of 220 grit out of my wood-finishing kit would not be up to the job.

As for the ability to re-insert the stub of the torsion bar into the bracket, I was glad to read that the fit was a bit loose. As you suggested, a bottle jack and a mallet might be enough to pop it back into the opening.

Several elements of the situation seem to be a bit different on different TM years/models. On mine, there are still several threads left on the adjuster bolt, so no problem there. And the adjusters on the middle bars are set at (or very close to) zero.

It is expected that different diameter bars will be used at the different locations. The center location of each shell seems to require less lift than the ends, probably because the end lifters have to lift the end walls in addition to the roof and sidewalls, while the center lifters don't have to lift an end wall. So smaller bars are appropriate. The trick for the factory is to use the right diameter bar at each location. We've had a couple reports (including mine) that on 2020 2720QS, the bar used at the front of the front shell is not quite adequate, and the next size up would have been a better choice.

Thanks for your inputs.

Bill
Bill, I think that you might wear yourself out trying to open that hole with sandpaper. Have you thought of simply measuring the hole and drilling it out with the next size drill Or 2) or a step drill? If you don't have a drill motor with a 90* head, you can rent them at HomeDepot.

I would be very reluctant of grinding the torsion bar. That's spring steel and it would take some agressive grinding that may change the temper on the end of the bar. You might regret that.
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Old 05-18-2022, 05:58 PM   #26
coralcruze
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
coralcruze -

That was lots of good info in your post - thank you for putting it up.

Question: you reported that for the tongue jack hole, you used a high RPM drill with a sanding wheel. Tell me more about what kind of sanding wheel / sand paper you used. What kind of grit, and how big? I would expect that the frame members would be softer steel than the torsion bars, and Larryjb reports that the metal is really hard, so I suspect that a quarter sheet of 220 grit out of my wood-finishing kit would not be up to the job.

As for the ability to re-insert the stub of the torsion bar into the bracket, I was glad to read that the fit was a bit loose. As you suggested, a bottle jack and a mallet might be enough to pop it back into the opening.

Several elements of the situation seem to be a bit different on different TM years/models. On mine, there are still several threads left on the adjuster bolt, so no problem there. And the adjusters on the middle bars are set at (or very close to) zero.

It is expected that different diameter bars will be used at the different locations. The center location of each shell seems to require less lift than the ends, probably because the end lifters have to lift the end walls in addition to the roof and sidewalls, while the center lifters don't have to lift an end wall. So smaller bars are appropriate. The trick for the factory is to use the right diameter bar at each location. We've had a couple reports (including mine) that on 2020 2720QS, the bar used at the front of the front shell is not quite adequate, and the next size up would have been a better choice.

Thanks for your inputs.

Bill
Hey Bill... correction. I looked at my tools. I used a sandpaper wheel just to clean up the hole. But used a tungsten carbide cutting burr with my rottery. Don't know if anyone every used these but they make quick work of almost any metals. Just mark your hole and once close to the mark finish off with sandpaper. If cutting the bars you will go through a few cut off wheels but i think doable if clearance allows to get a tool in there. here also use diamond bit wheels.

As for the diff. Sized bars. I keep looking at new trailmanors on you tube and even the TM original vid of one opening and closing and they show it open evenly meaning the bottom of each half is parallel to the ground. If you are limited with torsion in the middle because the middle bars are smaller diameter than naturally you will take those in first. That's what happened on mine to the point that there is no more stored kinetic energy that those vars can muster due to thier diameter. That's why I feel they are under designed as I read that alot of people on here have the same issue. Hope that helps further?

Check this out... these are the tungsten carbide burrs I have. They really are this easy. https://youtu.be/yn9lYKI3wSg
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