TMs on Rough Roads?

I am looking to purchase a Trailmanor and travel on roads that are not always interstate smooth including a trip to Alaska.
Will a Trailmanor hold up on rough roads at a reasonable speed? What options do you recommend?
Next, I have read on this site that the tires and axles on the TM don't have much spare capacity for weight and that a weight distributing hitch is considered mandatory by many.(My TV is a 2003 Toyota 4Runner 4.7 V8 6500 tow limit). Does the WD hitch put weight on the TM Axle further limiting its carrying capacity?
Next, although my wife and I really only need a 2619, I have read that the 3023 has the most carrying capacity reserve. I like staying under Max capacity because there may be times (Alaska) when I have to travel with full tanks. Any thoughts on this subject?
Next, do you have to drain the toilet when traveling on rough roads?Other tanks?
Last, I agree that the advantages of the TM construction are substantial, but I also read about the thin aluminum walls having trouble retaining fasteners on latches and the door. Again, would they stand up to the bouncing on a rough road assuming a reasonable speed?

[Bill]

Hondo -

You ask some very good questions, and T_C's suggestion to call the factory is exactly the right thing to do. Let me chime in with a couple things as well.

First, the weight-carrying capacity of each TM model is limited by the axle rating. In my 2720SL, for example, the axle is rated for 3500 pounds, and the 14" tires are rated for a total of 3740 pounds (assuming equal side-to-side loading). We are told that as of 2004, you can order some models with a heftier axle, which in turn carries heftier tires. Your dealer might not be aware of this, and it doesn't show on the web site, so be sure to ask. A 5000-pound axle and 15" tires will add substantial reserve to the stock trailer rating. I believe that this applies to the 2619 and 2720 models - maybe others

Of course, it also makes the trailer weigh more, which increases the load on your tow vehicle.

Second, if you don't use a WDH, then ALL of the trailer's hitch weight is carried by the tow vehicle's rear axle. The purpose of a weight-distributing hitch is to put 1/3 of the hitch weight on the tow vehicle's FRONT axle, 1/3 on the tow vehicle's REAR axle, and 1/3 on the TRAILER'S axle. In other words, it "distributes" the hitch weight more or less evenly onto the three axles.

Consider a made-up example. The trailer weighs 3000 pounds total. When it is just sitting in your driveway, not hooked up to anything, that weight is divided up, 450 pounds resting on the tongue jack, and the other 2550 pounds resting on the wheels. If you hitch it up to your tow vehicle without a WDH, the 450 pound hitch weight is simply moved from the jack to the rear axle of your tow vehicle. There is still 2550 pounds on the trailer tires. If the trailer's capacity is 3500 pounds, then you have 950 pounds of reserve.

On the other hand, if you hook up to your tow vehicle using a weight-distributing hitch, then the 450-pound tongue is broken up into three parts. The first 150 pounds goes to your tow vehicle front axle, the next 150 pounds goes to your tow vehicle rear axle, and the last 150 pounds goes to the TM axle. The TM axles is now carrying the original 2550 pounds, plus the 150 relected from the tongue, for a total of 2700 pounds. Your trailer now has a reserve of 800 pounds. So the answer to your question is yes, the trailer's reserve is reduced. However, look what happened in your truck. In the first case, you dumped 450 pounds on the rear axle. This means that you have to reduce the truck's cargo-carrying capacity by 450 pounds. I don't know what your truck's rear axle weight rating is (and you should know it, by the way), but 450 pounds is a pretty big fraction of it. In the second case, you dumped only 150 pounds on the rear axle. So, by using a WDH, you can carry 300 more pounds in the back of the truck than you could without a WDH.

There are other reasons to use a WDH, but your query seemed centered around weight reserves.

Finally, there doesn't seem to be any problem with the strength of the aluminum sandwich construction, but many of us have had a few screws and a couple bolts shake loose during our travels. I would carry a small assortment of sheet metal screws, plus a few 1/4" and 3/8" bolts and nylock nuts in a few lengths. Also, be sure you have a square-drive screwdriver of the proper size for the screws on the TM, so you can tighten things if required.

Bill

[RockyMtnRay]

[quote author=Hondo link=board=22;threadid=2025;start=msg14270#msg1427 0 date=1087390832]
I am looking to purchase a Trailmanor and travel on roads that are not always interstate smooth including a trip to Alaska.
Will a Trailmanor hold up on rough roads at a reasonable speed? What options do you recommend?
Next, I have read on this site that the tires and axles on the TM don't have much spare capacity for weight and that a weight distributing hitch is considered mandatory by many.(My TV is a 2003 Toyota 4Runner 4.7 V8 6500 tow limit). Does the WD hitch put weight on the TM Axle further limiting its carrying capacity?
Next, although my wife and I really only need a 2619, I have read that the 3023 has the most carrying capacity reserve. I like staying under Max capacity because there may be times (Alaska) when I have to travel with full tanks. Any thoughts on this subject?
Next, do you have to drain the toilet when traveling on rough roads?Other tanks?
Last, I agree that the advantages of the TM construction are substantial, but I also read about the thin aluminum walls having trouble retaining fasteners on latches and the door. Again, would they stand up to the bouncing on a rough road assuming a reasonable speed?
[/quote]

I'd personally be a bit leary about towing any TM over very many miles of rough road...the shells do bounce up and down on every bump and that puts a lot of stress on the latches...particularly the latches on the front and back corners. I towed my TM over just 5 miles of fairly smooth (some potholes) improved dirt on my last trip and found the front latch on the driver's side had disengaged (no damage..the latch wasn't super snug and the front of the front shell dropped enough on a bump for the latch to disengage). Before the return on that road, I slightly snugged the front latches and nothing disengaged on the way out...though I was concerned about overly tightening the latches as there are reports of the latches ripping out of the sidewall skin. So given the relative fragility of the latching system, for extensive rough road travel I'd personally run large cargo straps around front and back of both shells to tie everything together and not even use the corner latches. It would look kinda weird down here in the "lower 48" but not at all out of place in Alaska.

Yes, a WDH places about a third of the distributed force on the trailer's tires.

The 3023 has the heavier duty axle ("5000 lb rating&quot, the 2619 and 2720s are shipped by default with the "3500 lb axle" (Dexter's ratings). However it is is possible to special order the smaller trailers (2720 for sure) with the heavier duty axle. Given the wheelbase and tow-rating of your 4-Runner...and rough conditions you'll be towing in...I'd personally recommend the smaller, more maneuverable 2619 or 2720 models. With the heavier duty axle on one of these models, you could safely travel with full fresh (20 gallons) and hot water tanks. I wouldn't, however, tow very far with a full grey water tank...when full it noticeably causes the back of the trailer to sag (really cuts ground clearance even with the lift kit) and being so large horizontally (and located behind the axle) has a tendancy for sloshing (which contributes to sway).

I've not noticed any problems with sloshing on the toilet...but haven't towed over really rough roads with it nearly full.

HTH

Thanks for the great information. This is the most technically helpful site that I have ever seen. Has anyone taken a Trailmanor to Alaska, and reported on the road conditions and any problems if any? This is certainly the roughest road I would ever take.

I ordered my 2720sd with the 5200lb axle and 15 inch wheels. I also got the lift kit. I havent traveled any rough roads, but like the extra ground clearence and weight carrying cap.

[ess2]

hondo: I'll let you know later. I pick up a new 3023 next week in Ga. & head to Alaska. I think my unit will be ok behind my 03 Tundra . Easy does it.

[Frenchy]

You should not encounter many rough roads going to Alaska. The AlCan highway is paved except where they are doing construction repairs. I went to Alaska in 1998 on the AlCan and we averaged 75 MPH on the paved portion in a Pontiac Minivan. There was probably 25 to 50 miles of construction along the way. Some of that was rough and slow going. I plan to take my 3023 TM to Alaska next year. I think I will take RMR's suggestion and have some cargoe straps for those rough sections. The Denali highway is not paved and is very rough. You will need to check with the locals if you get off the paved roads.

Let’s bring this topic back to life. I’m real curious about other owners experience on rough and dirt roads.
I recently moved back to Colorado Springs so will once again be hitting the back roads. My first year with my TM was spent here in Colorado and the TM did not fair well. Latches forever coming undone, screws and bolts coming loose. Dust covered everything from the door on back. Anything stored inside was usually rearranged. I will be the first to admit that few trailers are really built to handle rough road conditions but
TM’s best feature – the way it sets up and goes down - is its weakest feature. Now that I’m back in mountain country I’m afraid I will beat the trailer up to the point it does fall apart. Bummer cause I have
really enjoyed living in it the last 4 summers, but I didn’t have to go to far off the pavement.

I’m seriously considering selling the TM and getting a small popup similar to what I have before the TM. I drug that popup over miles of dirt roads and the only damage was a few dents from flying rocks.
Thanks.

[RockyMtnRay]

Originally Posted by fishnbum

Let’s bring this topic back to life. I’m real curious about other owners experience on rough and dirt roads.
I recently moved back to Colorado Springs so will once again be hitting the back roads. My first year with my TM was spent here in Colorado and the TM did not fair well. Latches forever coming undone, screws and bolts coming loose. Dust covered everything from the door on back. Anything stored inside was usually rearranged. I will be the first to admit that few trailers are really built to handle rough road conditions but
TM’s best feature – the way it sets up and goes down - is its weakest feature. Now that I’m back in mountain country I’m afraid I will beat the trailer up to the point it does fall apart. Bummer cause I have
really enjoyed living in it the last 4 summers, but I didn’t have to go to far off the pavement.

Had two off pavement trips with my TM last year.

First, into Sylvan Lake state park...only ~5 miles each way of washboarded and moderately pot-holed "gravel" road...resulted in (1) a front latch unlatching, (2) a broken set of wires to the curb side trailer brake (smooshed when the suspension fully deflected, probably on a pothole), and (3) pieces of wire insulation left from the original install falling into and jamming the blades of the refer vent fan. The latch was not a biggie (a bit of tightening) and the fan worked again after I got the hose off and retrieved the bits of insulation. The broken brake wires manifested themselves in occasional "NC" (no connection) indications from the Prodigy controller so I didn't figure that issue out until I'd crossed a couple of passes with only one trailer brake working.

Second trip was into Araphoe Bay CG on Lake Grandby...9 miles each way of moderately potholed gravel road. Took it real slow...~20 mph...so no damage (even the latches stayed latched) but I could hear all kinds of nasty-sounding bangs, bumps, rattles, and squeaks from the trailer everytime the trailer wheels hit a pothole. Thankfully, it was midweek and traffic was almost non-existant because I was all over that road trying to thread the trailer between the potholes.

Both times the road was damp to downright wet so little dust got inside (though I did have some!) but I had a heckuva time getting all the mud off after the 2nd trip.

Bottom line is I agree that a TM is not a very good off-pavement trailer...there's just too much flex and bounce between the shells and lower box. And the seals just don't deal seal well against dust with all the bouncing. Those two trips were enough to convince me that if I want to get long life (10 to 15 years) out of my TM...without a lot of repairs, I'd best choose campgrounds henceforth that are directly off of paved roads. No biggie if the interior campground roads are gravel (as most Forest Service CGs are) but the CG entrance had better be on a paved highway. Thankfully, Colorado has a large number of such campgrounds at...or fairly near...the areas where I like to hike/bike/kayak so I'm personally not feeling deprived. I have no urge to go trailer camping outside of developed campgrounds way in the backcountry...if I want that kind of getting-away, I'll do it with a backpack and tent.

I’m seriously considering selling the TM and getting a small popup similar to what I have before the TM. I drug that popup over miles of dirt roads and the only damage was a few dents from flying rocks.
Thanks.

TM's dealer in Colorado Springs....The Car Show...also sells (or at least used to sell) Aliner trailers and the owner, Dave Unruh, told me in 2002 (when I got my TM) that Aliners were what he recommended to people who want to take a trailer into the back country over rough roads. Because they are hard-walled/roofed, Aliners are a major step up from canvas walled popups...but they don't have all the flex of a TM. Don't have the room or interior amenities of a TM either but still a lot better than a Coleman. I just checked Aliner's dealer listing and it no longer shows The Car Show...only a dealer in Longmont...for Colorado. If The Car Show still handles Aliners, Dave might work you a pretty good deal on a trade of your TM for an Aliner...which would be convenient since I see you're also a Colo Spgs person. If not, then Longmont is only a 100 or so miles north of the Springs.

If you are willing to put in the work the TM could be a great off road trailer but it will take work. Think the weak parts through and you will see what I mean.

Or you could check out http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/evolution/ , built for off roading, could be you even get some ideas for alterations to TM.