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Old 07-01-2015, 06:16 PM   #1
Skyjim73
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Default Taking delivery of our new 3124KB and first trip

OK, we’ve completed our first real camping trip with the new 3124KB, a run to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon. General observations, which most of you experienced owners likely would consider old news:

The anticipated fuel economy benefits are clearly real! Towing with my V-10 gas hog, from Victorville, CA, to North Las Vegas in very hot conditions, a run which includes the Baker Grade, a fairly grueling climb to a 4000 foot pass in 100 degree plus heat, I was astounded to register a hand-calculated (triple-checked, once by the DW because I frankly did not believe my own numbers...) 16.28 mpg. This with a tow vehicle that struggles to ever crack 17 mpg over any distance without a trailer. Partly it was because I was on a heavily patrolled segment of I-15, so cruised at a quasi-legal 62 mph indicated, slower than I would prefer, but clearly in the fuel economy sweet spot. Higher speeds gave poorer economy, as always, but I never got below 12 mpg even when dicing with semis at 70+ on grades in Nevada and Utah. This with a tow vehicle which never cracked 9 mpg pulling my old hard side 22 footer over the same route.

As regards quality issues, we had to abort taking delivery the first time around in May – there were multiple things wrong or incomplete – some of the incompletes were stuff that stemmed from our unit being one of the first off the Nebraska line with multiple custom and other options. Some stuff like the cassette toilet wasn’t in the production flow at the new factory yet. The compressor fridge was in, but only ran on AC power – not on 12 volt. Custom RV tried to take on the task of completing several items to get it in shape for a trip deadline we had, but when I had multiple ground fault trips in the trailer as soon as I plugged it in at my house – which would not reset, and popped the breaker in my garage circuit, which has had no trouble with my 1996 Prowler for the past 18 years – I was simply done. I’m pretty good with DC systems and their troubleshooting, but have no desire to begin a new ownership experience with a suspect AC system right out of the box. In addition, there were gouged interior pieces, missing trim strips over some of the stapled seam lines inside, the running lights were not working on the front shell, and despite some valiant band-aids by Custom before i left the yard, I now had the feeling that the more we looked, the more issues we were going to find. I was simply done, had no time, and had to regretfully tell Custom to come get the trailer. Much of this was basic stuff which should never have made it out of the factory IMHO. I felt almost physically ill – had I made a huge mistake?

Fast forward to early June and I was ready to go down for delivery version 2.0. This time everything was in place, no AC or DC system weirdness, all the appliances and lights worked OK, and Custom had welded on the brackets for my Andersen No-Sway hitch and done the mods to the battery rails to fit my desired 260 AH batteries. Solar panels were on the roof, the MPPT charge controller was doing its thing, and the 4 AWG charge wiring had been run from the upgraded Progressive Dynamics converter section that had been installed in Nebraska forward to a marine cutoff switch and a main DC breaker mounted on the tongue. We folded things down, and as I was securing the travel latches, one of the aft latch hooks on the upper shell literally came off in my hand. All four bolts appeared to have corroded and failed! While those were being replaced, I quickly gave the others a visual and pull test but the other three seemed ok, so I hitched up and off we went on our maiden voyage…

When we arrived at the North Rim, setup was done slowly and carefully, and it was not until after we were done that I noticed that one of the four gold irridited bolts holding the forward right link arm for the rear shell to the bottom torsion bar was missing. Sort of like finding that the framers forgot to nail a joist in your house to the hangar, right? A quick check revealed two others that were loosened and in danger of leaving, one adjacent to the departed bolt, another on the aft arm on the same side of the aft shell. Both had the lockwashers in place so I can only conclude that they were not properly torqued at the factory. Went around snugging all of them up, and called Custom requesting replacements and a factory recommend torque spec. But honestly at that point I wondered if anybody has actually engineered this thing and bothered to do anything other than consult a standard torque table - which would, I think, result in an overtorque likely to crush the rectangular arm section if i understand the construction. I could be wrong there, but you can be certain that before we hit the road for trip number two, there will be blue lock-tite on all of those bolts!

I have not done any serious searches of fixes to a lot of things we noticed on this first trip that I knew would be irritants to me, but figured I'd live with as part of the tradeoff for the low profile. The seal installation in several places like the door area seems haphazard (there is a gaping gap at the bottom aft door corner that needs some attention to detail IMO), as does the placement of the velcro dots for the forward insulating flaps while in transit. The hasps they use for the bathroom walls seem a crude and cheap approach, and the plastic trim almost designed to fail. Nothing about that setup will prevent those wall panels from "walking" as you experienced folks know. Gotta be a better way. I've got an old buddy who is a mechanisms designer for spacecraft at JPL - I'm going to have him over, ply him with some beers, and challenge him to come up with something clever. He will, but his first several ideas will be hopelessly unbuildable. But maybe after lots of beers and arguments we'll figure out some elegant and robust modifications. Maybe not, but it's worth a try, and the process will be fun

Funpilot, I have no idea if my windows leak, because we had no real weather. I'm REALLY happy with the performance of the compressor fridge, but I screwed up when I placed the trailer in our camp site - should have been about 15 feet farther forward in the pullthrough, and i would have gotten a lot more sun - I'm not yet used to considering the solar panels when placing the rig. Had to run the generator an hour or so each day to keep the batteries nice and happy.

More comment in a second post - this is getting awfully long! But we are off and running, and we can't wait to get out again and learn more (after I locktite those bolts). Lots I already want to change, but while I am very unhappy with the detail work I see from TM, I still like the bones.
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3124KB delivered 5/2015 - early unit from Nebraska. TM installed Dometic compressor fridge, lower battery rails, 4AWG batt cable, and PD converter during build. Custom RV installed cassette toilet, two 260 AH 6V batts, 2 UniSolar 64 solar panels, Morningstar MPPT controller/meter.

Tow vehicle: 2016 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman CC 4x4 3.0 diesel.
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Old 07-01-2015, 08:30 PM   #2
Padgett
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Am curious, where do you carry the pair of T-145s ? In the rear compartment ? They appear to be 3/4" taller than my GC2s but should fit the same way. Are they in a container ?
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Old 07-01-2015, 09:35 PM   #3
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Padgett, they are on the tongue - I've got a KB with the front bunk, so all I needed to do was get another .75 more depth on the battery rails. Went for an inch just to make sure I would not have any clearance issues with the front lip of the shell coming down. The BCI group format is GC2H - I assume the H is for "high". I've got them in a pair of Seasense 50090641 snaptop plastic battery boxes and went overkill, tying them together with a 2/0 connector cable from Real Goods I had left over from a solar power project. The Seasense boxes were about 12 bucks from amazon and fit the taller batteries nicely.

Jim
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3124KB delivered 5/2015 - early unit from Nebraska. TM installed Dometic compressor fridge, lower battery rails, 4AWG batt cable, and PD converter during build. Custom RV installed cassette toilet, two 260 AH 6V batts, 2 UniSolar 64 solar panels, Morningstar MPPT controller/meter.

Tow vehicle: 2016 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman CC 4x4 3.0 diesel.
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Old 07-02-2015, 05:36 AM   #4
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Skyjim73/FunPilot,
I've read with great interest all the posts you guys make. We are ordering our 3124KD in September for delivery in the spring.
I'm particularly interested in the compressor fridge. How much power (drain on the batteries) does it seem to use? I know this depends on outside air temp (OAT) and such, but did it seem to drain the batteries when towing? I'm planning on installing two 12V Grp 31 deep cycles (110 Ah each).
Keep posting any problems you encounter, I'm taking copious notes.
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:25 AM   #5
funpilot
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Interesting observation on the 12 volt side of the compressor fridge as they miswired mine as well. That means the person who learned from that mistake did not share it with the new facility. I was told it was an easy fix.

As far as battery drain, I have not run it off the battery alone at all. I do not plan to do that when towing as I will do what others have posted instead. Cool down a day or two before on home AC power. Put frozen bottles of water in the fridge before going. I have read that will keep the fridge at about 40 degrees after 7 hours which is a good starting point at the campground.
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2015 3124KD
TV: 2005 Avalanche 1500 with Prodigy P3
Truma On-Demand Comfort Hot Water Heater
Dometic 1110 Compressor Refrigerator
BlueOx SwayPro Hitch
2.5 inch lift kit
Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C
Yada Wireless backup camera
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Old 07-02-2015, 07:32 AM   #6
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They do have a consistent pattern of not completing simple things I am now seeing. For example, three of my kitchen drawers' bottom slides were never screwed in to the back wall. The radio frame was not screwed in, just left hanging. They never put the bumper on my sink to protect it from the bed when you slide it in. They did not clean off all the glue on the ceiling left by dirty fingers (came off easily with Dawn), etc.

Granted, these are nominal things but as we all have said are like "Never Events" in the healthcare industry. I have been in healthcare leadership for over 30 years and we have had to get our act together on quality as there is now an extensive list of items that insurers will not pay for if we do something wrong. In my shop we got to zero errors so I know how to get there. Sad, but it is not hard to do. It starts with management owning the problem, and then holding the people who make mistakes responsible. Another simple approach.
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2015 3124KD
TV: 2005 Avalanche 1500 with Prodigy P3
Truma On-Demand Comfort Hot Water Heater
Dometic 1110 Compressor Refrigerator
BlueOx SwayPro Hitch
2.5 inch lift kit
Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C
Yada Wireless backup camera
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Old 07-02-2015, 08:27 AM   #7
Skyjim73
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I was told by Custom RV that the problem was a reversed wiring problem on the DC hookup. Fortunately there appear to have been no ill effects on the fridge.

I have run mine during towing, started with unit well chilled along with contents from a night on AC power prior to departure. Ran the factory fridge fan (it is a bit noisy, but lack of airflow is going to just kill any fridge's ability to reject heat with the TM folded) and transitioned to DC power a few minutes before departure. (Hey, I'm an old rocket/space shuttle guy. The bird waits till the last minute or two prior to T-zero to go on internal power... ).

Living in Southern California, many of my trip profiles will involve tows through hot low elevation environments en route to cooler destinations. The 3 way absorption fridges in RVs I've previously owned typically performed poorly en route to my camping spots, not really staying cold enough for safe meat storage on many trips, even after long pre-chills in the driveway. I installed the solar panels primarily because I wanted to be able to reduce or eliminate battery drain by the compressor fridge during these transits.

With the caveat that I only have one trip to go on, and I may wind up tweaking things like my panel choice and remote meter (I might decide I really need the comprehensive data from a Trimetric or E-meter to manage the battery bank, but the Morningstar remote meter has a lot of data logging capability on daily min/max bank voltage and solar amps in), I'd say that I was happy with both the battery health and fridge temperature (34 degrees on my little hanging thermometer) on camp arrival on this trip. I got a little cocky in fact and was running a second portable compressor fridge in the TM for the first couple of days, but that was pulling me down too fast and I consolidated the contents into the main fridge on day three and ran the generator two one hour stints that day to pour amps back into the batteries. That is where the ability to manually keep the PD 4600 converter in 14.4 V "boost" charge mode (I would have called it bulk charge stage on my old Heart systems) during generator runs while monitoring the battery voltage came in really handy. Having the larger charge cables in place also kept my voltage losses down on the longish run from the converter near the bathroom up to the batts on the tongue.

As noted I got a lot of shade since i didn't do a very good job of placing the rig this time, so more experience is needed. But the panels had me fully charged or very close to it after 550 miles of running through mostly 105 degrees plus conditions with the fridge operating and the fridge fan running.
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3124KB delivered 5/2015 - early unit from Nebraska. TM installed Dometic compressor fridge, lower battery rails, 4AWG batt cable, and PD converter during build. Custom RV installed cassette toilet, two 260 AH 6V batts, 2 UniSolar 64 solar panels, Morningstar MPPT controller/meter.

Tow vehicle: 2016 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman CC 4x4 3.0 diesel.
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Old 07-02-2015, 09:44 AM   #8
Skyjim73
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Default Sundry observations after first trip... My opinions, YMMV

To continue from the original post, some things we noticed along the way...

For us, the cassette toilet is a good option - but we do a lot of dry camping. I'm a big guy, and while the swivel seat was at first just a giggle-inducer when we discovered it in the dealer lot, out in the field, for somebody my size, it is useful. The whole thing seems pretty lightly constructed, so I treat it as gently as possible...

Speaking of the cassette toilet, if you order one, make SURE the flow restrictor that Thetford provides in the installation kit gets installed. Any pump pressure at all will cause the nozzle to direct some clean water out over the lip of the bowl on the upper left side facing the bowl - about 10 or 11 o'clock.

The water pump is really noisy. Looked briefly at it during pre-delivery, and it isn't a Shurflo unless they have changed their case designs a lot. Noted another poster with a new unit got a Chinese made pump. Might be in mine, too. I will probably change it out for something with an accumulator to damp pulses.

REALLY glad we got the King bed model, not just for the bed size , but for those deep storage areas beneath. Very useful!

IMHO the LED light fixtures being installed in new TMs have way too much glare and the color is a little too starkly white. Feel like interrogation lights. Effort to cycle them on/off is also pretty high - almost more force than my wife can easily apply. The three reading lamps along the front wall are the nicest lights in the unit. I'm already looking for some low profile LED replacements for at at least some of the front ceiling lights. Need a more restful reading light option in that area.

The Fiamma awning really needs tiedowns in any decent breeze.

The lightweight countertop material needs edging of some sort to protect it from damage. Too fragile to hold up over the long haul, I fear.

DW and I are turning 60 this year, and heading into geezerhood, our backs need better support than the factory foam mattresses provide. We have put a pair of 3 inch twin XL memory foam toppers on the King bed, and they helped immensely. (Two twin XLs worked better with the TM bed dimensions than the Cal Kings in stock at our local Bed, Bath & Beyond store). It is a little harder to close the rear shell, but not much.
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3124KB delivered 5/2015 - early unit from Nebraska. TM installed Dometic compressor fridge, lower battery rails, 4AWG batt cable, and PD converter during build. Custom RV installed cassette toilet, two 260 AH 6V batts, 2 UniSolar 64 solar panels, Morningstar MPPT controller/meter.

Tow vehicle: 2016 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman CC 4x4 3.0 diesel.
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Old 07-02-2015, 10:20 AM   #9
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Being in the rear compartment with a vent I am going to need to build a custom battery box since have wet GC2s (AGMs would not need but would have doubled the price and Solar controllar says wet cell only (I know an AGM s a sealed wet cell...).

Meanwhile with the float charge port now under the bumper cover the rear comparment is pretty much complete and can build a battery box. Think the ends will need to be 1/16" plastic since really no room left but first need to tidy up the cables. Note the vent behind the batteies.

AWG 2 cables are to feed the 1KW inverter in the next compartment. Bit of overkill but coffee maker draws 700W and have measured 63A on the 12v line & cables were pre-formed and cheap. Fast disconnect box has 100A breaker for inverter and two 30A breakers for solar and WFO box. 10A blade fuse is for float charger. Probably do not need the disconnect between the two batteries.

The two GC2s provide 210AH. May go to the 260s (3/4 inch taller) when these go but with multiple energy sources including 200W of solar (and we are the sunshine state though thunderstorm state might be more appropriate this time of year).

This install was designed to allow room for the generator to sit in here also.

Cbossc: the KD also has a slide. Where do you plan to mount two Grp 31s ? Stacked ? AGMs could be mounted creatively.

I like the Duracell AGM grp 31 from Sam's (had one in my Vixen but also two GC2s) and one is about the same price as my two conventional GC2s but also about half the AH.

Right now am concentrating on running my AC from a single generator that fits in the rear compartment (why everything else is a bit wedged to leave the maximum space),

It is interesting how fast our capabilities are expanding ond how inexpensive it can be. Have an SCR box coming in that should reduce my AC starting current under 20A and will be running a "small generator shoot out" with the old reliable but pricy EU2000i against a couple of imports for half the price.

Criteria is simple:
1) Reliably Start the AC at 100F (or close) in the sun.
2) Fit in rear compartment (& light enough to lift)
3) Quiet
4) Able to run 8 hours on a tank.

Anything else ?

Personally think this is the kind of package TM should be offering. Do not think a grp 24 and 80w of solar is enough for modern needs. My Judge was fine with the optional 55A alternator (w/AC) while my Jeep has a 160A. Modern times.

ps my rear compartment is 14.5" wide. Is it larger on the 2922 and 3124 king models ?
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Old 07-02-2015, 02:58 PM   #10
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Padgett, the rear compartment on the 2922s and 3124s is considerably deeper - that was one reason we went with the 3124 rather than ordering a 3023, which they will still build as a special order.

Can't get to mine right now as TM can't open up in the drivewaybut I believe the usable depth fore and aft is about 32" IIRC. My EU-2000 fits in long axis fore-aft with considerable room to spare.

Agree that TM should look into packaging a small genset compartment with some soundproofing and induction/exhaust plumbing designed to work with the TM.
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3124KB delivered 5/2015 - early unit from Nebraska. TM installed Dometic compressor fridge, lower battery rails, 4AWG batt cable, and PD converter during build. Custom RV installed cassette toilet, two 260 AH 6V batts, 2 UniSolar 64 solar panels, Morningstar MPPT controller/meter.

Tow vehicle: 2016 Ram 1500 Outdoorsman CC 4x4 3.0 diesel.
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