Radio retrofit in '98 3124 KS--how to run spk wire?

I've searched the entire Electrical forum in vain for a thread that covers wiring a radio and speakers in an older unit WITHOUT the factory wiring installed. I have a very nice Kenwood Xcelon CD player/radio that I'd like to install in the TM and since I have a lot of car stereo experience, I didn't think it would be a big deal, which will teach me to think.

To reiterate, we have a 1998 3124KS that we purchased last year from the infamous Car Show in Colo. Springs. Checking how the other wiring runs from the bottom base to the upper shells shows me that it's run up a hollow tube attached to the rear shell arm. But from there it just kinda disappears into the lower part of the shell, appearing to run parallel along the shell about 2" or so above the bottom trim strip. Ultimately, my first question is just how difficult is it to run additional wire down this path? Specifically, what in the heck do I have to disassemble to make this happen? I'm hoping that maybe someone here has confronted this already and can give me some insight.

I'm also vacillating as to where to mount the head unit, which is my second question. All the factory applications use the space above the refrigerator, but it seems to me that this would require a lot of finagling to get power from the converter box through the various interceding cabinet walls and then speaker wire from there, down to the bottom of the camper base and then over to shell arm. Not to mention where I'll stash some kind of antenna. My thought is to use the space on the front side of the cabinet behind my knife and fork drawer. That space shares air with the heater and converter and has a nice access door where the original factory battery was installed. And it would be incredibly easy to get power from the fuse box and to get an antenna situated.

So if anyone out there has confronted this mod before, I'd be most interested in your advice. And even if you haven't done this exact mod, I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has had any experience fiddling with wiring from the base to the upper front shell, which is my biggest conundrum.

I also want to extend a thank you to everyone who is active on this forum. It really is an invaluable resource for us TM aficionados and unquestionably one of the best special interest forums I've ever frequented.

[Bill]

I'm not familiar with the construction details of the '98 models, but if I were faced with doing this in my '02 or '06 2720SL, I think I would mount everything in the overhead cabinet above the front window (above the sofa on the slide models). There is power already there for the lights, and an antenna could be mounted on the side wall at one end of the cabinet. Speakers, of course, go at the ends of the cabinet, just as they do now.

By the way, 12-volt power should be easily available in the space above the refrig. You could pick it up from several circuits - the refrig itself (which I don't partiularly recommend), from the cigarette lighter/power point on the panel beside the refrig (assuming the '98 models had one), or from any of several points under the kitchen sink. That doesn't help with the routing of the speaker wires, of course.

Bill

[mjlaupp]

The 12 volt power for the lights in the area above the front window is unfiltered in 2004 and older TMs unless the converter has been upgraded. This will create 60 cycle hum in the radio when the TM is plugged into shore power.
Mike

[Bill]

Good catch, Mike. I spaced that one entirely. So an additional challenge would be figuring out where a filtered supply line is available - or upgrade the converter.

Bill

Mounting the head unit in the cabinetry in the front shell really isn't a viable alternative for two, or now with mjulapp's reply, three reasons.

1) The only space available to mount the unit would be where the good ol' Seth Thomas clock is today as there's no space above or below it. I pulled the clock out so that I could get a feel for what that would look like if I mounted it there and for whatever reason, I just can't get comfortable with it. I'd have to fabricate some kind of back plate/framework to cover the hole from the clock and figure out how to make it look like it wasn't an afterthought kind of thing and I just can't figure how to do it in a way that I'd like.

2) Even if there was a place to mount it, the head unit is too deep by about an inch. It's an older unit that's not as compact as the newer stuff but it's a great deck and also has a nice little remote, which would come in handy.

3) I really don't want to have to figure out how to filter out the sine wave noise from the converter. I spent too many years installing high-end car stereos and dealing with engine noise to fiddle with that.

So I'm back to the main issue being how to run the wiring through the front shell and so far, have gotten no feedback on that. Do any of you think that I should just contact the factory and see what they have to say about it or would I be wasting my time? I'd really rather not start disassembling the shell just to figure that out so if anyone has any insight, please give me the benefit of your experience.

[ShrimpBurrito]

I called the factory awhile back to determine the routing of the television coax cable so that I might replace it with lower loss cable for a cellular antenna. It goes from the preamp at the cigarette lighter behind the fridge to the TV antenna, which is quite close to where the speakers are located. So hopefully this info will be helpful.

They told me that the coax, and I believe they also said the spearker wires as well, go from:

behind the fridge ---> down to the floor ---> through the floor ---> up the support arm (I believe in the PVC pipe) ---> into the bag seal on the vertical part of the front shell ---> up the bag seal to the corner where the wall of the front shell meets the ceiling

...from there, it runs behind the white moulding in that corner on the inside. I was told that if I removed that moulding, it would likely break in the process and not be usable for reinstallation. It can be purchased from the factory, or if you're not particular, you can pick some pre-finished quarter round up from HD for probably alot less. From there, it goes behind that front cabinet to the speakers.

I think it would be easily doable to feed wire up to the point of the moulding. After that, at least in my 2000 unit, the moulding has to come off. I have not yet pursued this project as I have been able to do without it for now.

Dave

[commodor47]

Originally Posted by ShrimpBurrito

...from there, it runs behind the white moulding in that corner on the inside. I was told that if I removed that moulding, it would likely break in the process and not be usable for reinstallation. It can be purchased from the factory, or if you're not particular, you can pick some pre-finished quarter round up from HD for probably alot less. From there, it goes behind that front cabinet to the speakers.

I have removed that molding on the curb side in order to track down a persistent leak. To carefully remove the molding I used an old walnut pick. The pointed end let me get behind the molding enough to allow the small flat portion of the pick end to release a section of the molding. The trick is to release the upper lip first - that will free up the bottom edge of the strip. I also found it helpful to keep slight down and outward pressure on the strip as you work the walnut pick along. In some places I was able to simply pull down large sections of the strip while at the same time pushing the pick along the space between the molding and the angled metal piece. The attached thumbnail shows an area of small indents caused by the pick. But, once the strip is re-installed (it snaps in place) those marks are not visible. Completely removing the strip may require the removal of some caulking - where the end meets the bag seal area. The strip can be removed without significant damage but does take a lot of patience - and some trial and error in figuring out what tool(s) to use. You might want to price a replacement strip - just in case there is a problem removing the OEM strip.

Forgot to include where to start the removal process - you need to pry back the molding along the ceiling cabinets (where the speakers are housed) in order to access the end of the molding.

Dick

[ShrimpBurrito]

Great info, Dick. In case it isn't obvious to others, you don't see any wires behind the moulding in that picture because the door side pictured, and I believe all the wires run behind the moulding on the other side with the sink.

Dave

Thanks for the feedback on the wiring and moulding, Dick. While I don't have a walnut pick, I do have some creatively pointed objects of various sizes and bends, including an assortment of dental picks from an old hygienist friend and I've been wanting them to come in handy for years. :-)

I'll give it all a look this weekend and see if I can't make sense of it.

Thanks!

[Bill]

Joe -

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting cutting a hole in the flip up doors. What I had in mind was mounting it entirely inside the cabinet, on the floor of that space, anywhere in the width of the cabinet. To use it, you would raise the door and latch it open. Of course, if the unit is too deep to fit, then it's a moot issue.

Either way, Mike's point about filtered power still stands. I agree that you don't want to get involved with trying to filter that rough rectified sine wave.

Bill