What are people using to tow a 2720 Trailmanor(3100 lb. dry)

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by HappyWDWCampers

This is true for models prior to 2008... but 2008 and later HL are 5000# towing when you get the towing package (with the exception of the Hybrid, which never exceeds 3500)...

Plus I am confused. TM themselves say you can tow a 2720 with a 3500# tow rating. They even use a honda odyssey as an example! They say you can tow a 3023 with a 3500# tow limit. I can't imagine the manufacturer recommending something hazardous. Now granted -- you're not left with much more than 500-600 for cargo once you've added options to the dry weight, but if you plan carefully, you can make it work.

The manufacturer doesn't necessarily "Recommend" any vehicles (although their advertising is a bit deceitful). They state that vehicles with a 3500# tow rating can tow these trailers (Dry). They also state that consideration must be made for adding passengers, cargo and fuel.

Not many people go camping by themselves with an empty trailer. A little imagination and common sense might tell a person that they could need a higher tow rating for real life situations.

As has been pointed out on this forum a number of times, TrailManor is doing no more or no less than any other advertiser of a particular product. I think that most manufacturers advertise their products to their extreme limts. However, IMHO, the pictures of the vehicles posted on their website may come back to haunt them someday.....(although, I truly hope that it doesn't).

Originally Posted by HappyWDWCampers

This is true for models prior to 2008... but 2008 and later HL are 5000# towing when you get the towing package (with the exception of the Hybrid, which never exceeds 3500)....

Can't find this for the '08, but the Toyota website does say that the '09 v6 with towing package can do 5000 lbs, but it's the only model of the HL that can do this. All other models are at 3500 lbs.

Originally Posted by HappyWDWCampers

Plus I am confused. TM themselves say you can tow a 2720 with a 3500# tow rating. They even use a honda odyssey as an example! They say you can tow a 3023 with a 3500# tow limit. I can't imagine the manufacturer recommending something hazardous. Now granted -- you're not left with much more than 500-600 for cargo once you've added options to the dry weight, but if you plan carefully, you can make it work.

I keep reading that many have the mind-set that as long as I'm at 3500 lbs, I'm "ok"... but keep in mind that is MAXIMUM towing capacity. Basically, even if you could somehow make the number, you're going to travel the country with your family, towing a trailer behind you, with your vehicle at MAXIMUM capacity.

For many of us who have boating experience, this would be like filling your boat with your family and gear to it's MAXIMUM capacity, and then going out to the middle of the lake no matter what the weather is like. According to the little label you can do it, but do you really want to???

TM is not really lying to you when they show you a 3500lb vehicle towing a TM trailer. There are no passengers, no luggage, no gas, no food, and nothing in the TM. It's today's advertising.

From the TM website:
"Tow ratings for vehicles should be described as “general guidelines”. Actual towing limits depend on towing speed, highway grades, elevation, desired acceleration, miles towed per year, tow vehicle loading, frontal area of trailer, sway resistance of trailer, etc."

With these kinds of variables effecting your overall towing capacity, do you want to be running at MAXIMUM capacity??

I have a level driveway and can move my 2720SL around the driveway with a little effort using a two wheeled hand dolly. But getting to and from the places I like to camp it is nice to have the capacity of a large V8 in a 3/4 ton truck. Yes maybe a little overkill most of the time, but I have never had a vacation spoiled by the stress of a marginal towing situation.

I have a '08 Highlander, with the "tow" package. Rated at 5000lbs. With no trailer the HL gets 20mpg in town, 25+ on the Highway (same as the Hybyrid) and 16 - 18 mpg towing. It is my wife and I and we try to watch the loading (weight wise). If you're hauling 3 kids and all the gear that goes with that, the Highlander would not be a good choice. The other posters are correct that the chassis is heavier duty on the 4Runner, the Highlander uses a Camry chassis. i was more then a bit concerned until I hauled the TM around a few times. With the WDH, it is a well balanced load that handles well.

I would much prefer to have a 3/4 ton truck for towing, but not for the other 95% of the driving we do. I'm hoping the HL holds up as it is a great vehicle otherwise. Maybe a used truck down the road for towing....we'll see.

Now....tomorrow, I'm heading over Cottonwood Pass with it, outside Buena Vista, I don't know of a tougher test, so I'll report back.

Originally Posted by Redhawk

I have a '08 Highlander, with the "tow" package. Rated at 5000lbs.
Now....tomorrow, I'm heading over Cottonwood Pass with it, outside Buena Vista, I don't know of a tougher test, so I'll report back.

Cottonwood Pass shows to be an elevation of over 12,000ft.
Keep in mind that you will loose in the neighborhood of 35% of your TV horsepower at this height.
Good luck and will look forward to your return report.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by ED-n-KEL

.

For many of us who have boating experience, this would be like filling your boat with your family and gear to it's MAXIMUM capacity, and then going out to the middle of the lake no matter what the weather is like. According to the little label you can do it, but do you really want to???

I love that analogy.....it's exactly right. I hope that you don't mind if I use it....

Well given I have never towed before I certainly cannot say I know much about this. From the research I had done I thought you did not just have to watch tow limit but also GCVWR. My vehicle has a 3500# tow limit but a 8800# GCVWR. Working with that if I am looking at a 3400# TM (dry... don't need to tow wet). That leaves me 5400# left. The vehicle weights roughly 4200#. Now I am left with 1200# for passengers, cargo, and fuel. I may be overweight from my recent pregnancy but I am certainly not going to fill that amount! So, tell me again why I cannot tow a TM with my vehicle?

There is also a lot of discussion that TM does not really say we can tow with a van or small SUV, but here is a quote from their page: "That makes TrailManor an ideal choice for today's smaller vehicles, including 6-cylinder SUVs, crossovers, pickups, and even minivans."

Also, this page shows two popular vans. It does mention the quotes you listed but then continues on to say: "MODERATE TOWING CONDITIONS
Mostly low altitudes, only occasional steep grades, part time service, normal highway speeds - Models 2619 through 3023 need at least 3500 pound tow rated vehicles..." if I plan to do moderate towing, I don't see why I have to change my tow vehicle based on the numbers above and these statements... the page even goes on to say "Light duty towing of a well-balanced trailer a few hundred pounds above the rating is much safer than towing a lighter, poorly balanced unit with a tendency to sway. Also, towing an upright trailer with large frontal area at highway speeds can damage a transmission even if the trailer weight is below the tow rating." So if I am towing a low profile TM that is closer to my limit -- but not over, I am much better off than towing a small TT that is anywhere in my limit...

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by HappyWDWCampers

Well given I have never towed before I certainly cannot say I know much about this. From the research I had done I thought you did not just have to watch tow limit but also GCVWR. My vehicle has a 3500# tow limit but a 8800# GCVWR. Working with that if I am looking at a 3400# TM (dry... don't need to tow wet). That leaves me 5400# left. The vehicle weights roughly 4200#. Now I am left with 1200# for passengers, cargo, and fuel. I may be overweight from my recent pregnancy but I am certainly not going to fill that amount! So, tell me again why I cannot tow a TM with my vehicle?

There is also a lot of discussion that TM does not really say we can tow with a van or small SUV, but here is a quote from their page: "That makes TrailManor an ideal choice for today's smaller vehicles, including 6-cylinder SUVs, crossovers, pickups, and even minivans."

Also, this page shows two popular vans. It does mention the quotes you listed but then continues on to say: "MODERATE TOWING CONDITIONS
Mostly low altitudes, only occasional steep grades, part time service, normal highway speeds - Models 2619 through 3023 need at least 3500 pound tow rated vehicles..." if I plan to do moderate towing, I don't see why I have to change my tow vehicle based on the numbers above and these statements...

I think that you may be a little confused.

Here is that way that the formula works.

Start with the GCWR of 8800#, subtract the curb-weight of the vehicle 4200#. That leaves you with 4600# for the fully loaded trailer, passengers, cargo and fuel in the TV. The term "Dry weight" has nothing to do with water.

If you are talking about a TM that is 3400# "Dry weight" That does not include all of the items that you add to the trailer's basic assembly. For instance, the "Dry weight" on my 2720 is 2748#. The actual loaded weight (On California State scales) is 4103#. That was with no water and basic camping gear for 2 people (dishes, clothes, food etc), plus a 15# table, 5# matt, 2 full tanks of propane, 2-batteries and a 43# generator.

If you are looking at a 3500# dry weight TM, I think that it would be reasonable to figure that you may be well over 4000# including the bare essentials. That would leave you with less than 600# for passengers cargo and fuel.

Although, you cannot just consider any one particular maximum rating on any vehicle. You should not exceed ANY of the maximum ratings for your vehicle. If you have a 3500# maximum tow rating, there is a reason for that. Manufacturers do not take tow ratings lightly. They know that a lower tow rating will effect market share, They have a lot of things to consider when they publish a tow rating and you can be sure that they do not do it lightly.

It sounds like your TV might be adequate for some TMs but you should not exceed your 3500# towing capacity under any circumstances.

It sounds like you may have a TV that is capable of handling a lot of weight as long as the weight is contained in the TV. The lower tow rating may be due to a shorter wheel base or other suspension issues. The concern may be that the vehicle might loose control and spin out in severe braking conditions if it is towing over 3500# (this is just an example).

You used this quote from the TM website and this is where Bill and I sometimes disagree slightly...."Mostly low altitudes, only occasional steep grades, part time service, normal highway speeds - Models 2619 through 3023 need at least 3500 pound tow rated vehicles..." The highlighted areas are very dangerous issues IMHO......it only takes 1 time of loosing your brakes going down a steep grade to cost the lives of the passengers in the TV.......I think it's a very slippery slope to have a TV that is not capable of handling the most extreme conditions that one might encounter. The best made plans of mice and men end at the bottom of a steep grade that you didn't plan for.

Originally Posted by harveyrv

I think that you may be a little confused.

Here is that way that the formula works.

Start with the GCWR of 8800#, subtract the curb-weight of the vehicle 4200#. That leaves you with 4600# for the fully loaded trailer, passengers, cargo and fuel in the TV. The term "Dry weight" has nothing to do with water.

If you are talking about a TM that is 3400# "Dry weight" That does not include all of the items that you add to the trailer's basic assembly. For instance, the "Dry weight" on my 2720 is 2748#. The actual loaded weight (On California State scales) is 4103#. That was with no water and basic camping gear for 2 people (dishes, clothes, food etc), plus a 15# table, 5# matt, 2 full tanks of propane, 2-batteries and a 43# generator.

If you are looking at a 3500# dry weight TM, I think that it would be reasonable to figure that you may be well over 4000# including the bare essentials. That would leave you with less than 600# for passengers cargo and fuel.

Although, you cannot just consider any one particular maximum rating on any vehicle. You should not exceed ANY of the maximum ratings for your vehicle. If you have a 3500# maximum tow rating, there is a reason for that. Manufacturers do not take tow ratings lightly. They know that a lower tow rating will effect market share, They have a lot of things to consider when they publish a tow rating and you can be sure that they do not do it lightly.

It sounds like your TV might be adequate for some TMs but you should not exceed your 3500# towing capacity under any circumstances.

It sounds like you may have a TV that is capable of handling a lot of weight as long as the weight is contained in the TV. The lower tow rating may be due to a shorter wheel base or other suspension issues. The concern may be that the vehicle might loose control and spin out in severe braking conditions if it is towing over 3500# (this is just an example).

Sorry -- when I said "dry" I meant with all the factory options and no water... not just no water. I am not quite sure how in the world you pack 1300# of stuff with you. Sure you need stuff to cook on but I don't plan to pack heavy china when lightweight plastic or even paper will do.

I agree that safety is HUGE and with children in my TV that is important to me. I agree that exceeding one's tow limit is not wise. I am just having a hard time seeing how I could possibly exceed it with the calculations i have done. I mean gosh, if I have to go back to the Expedition I had prior to my current vehicle, I would not spend the money on the TM... I would just get the big honkin' TT that costs thousands less -- after all I will NEVER tow it enough to make the difference up in fuel costs.

Again, I am new to this and I have a lot to learn, but when I went to my local dealer (one that many up here recommend...) they were going to sell us one that is even bigger than what we feel we can tow. I know dealers will do anything for a sale, but they were telling us what vehicles they hooked it up to and by far our situation is much safer and actually within the limits.

I am very confused by all the differing opinions out there. The used one we are thinking of was actually towed by much smaller vehicles that what we own (in terms of wheel base and/or towing ability (GCVWR))... I guess I wasted my membership money on this forum since no one up here seems to think I can actually tow this thing (who cares if the audio on the ad says I already own the vehicle to tow it... apparently that is all advertising and "common sense" as stated above should have told me that I could not do it, despite my calculations...) If I am going to be looking at expeditions again, I have wait until my kids can get themselves in by themselves, and pay off the expedition and then buy the TT.

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by HappyWDWCampers

Sorry -- when I said "dry" I meant with all the factory options and no water... not just no water. I am not quite sure how in the world you pack 1300# of stuff with you. Sure you need stuff to cook on but I don't plan to pack heavy china when lightweight plastic or even paper will do.

I agree that safety is HUGE and with children in my TV that is important to me. I agree that exceeding one's tow limit is not wise. I am just having a hard time seeing how I could possibly exceed it with the calculations i have done. I mean gosh, if I have to go back to the Expedition I had prior to my current vehicle, I would not spend the money on the TM... I would just get the big honkin' TT that costs thousands less -- after all I will NEVER tow it enough to make the difference up in fuel costs.

Again, I am new to this and I have a lot to learn, but when I went to my local dealer (one that many up here recommend...) they were going to sell us one that is even bigger than what we feel we can tow. I know dealers will do anything for a sale, but they were telling us what vehicles they hooked it up to and by far our situation is much safer and actually within the limits.

I am very confused by all the differing opinions out there. The used one we are thinking of was actually towed by much smaller vehicles that what we own (in terms of wheel base and/or towing ability (GCVWR))... I guess I wasted my membership money on this forum since no one up here seems to think I can actually tow this thing (who cares if the audio on the ad says I already own the vehicle to tow it... apparently that is all advertising and "common sense" as stated above should have told me that I could not do it, despite my calculations...) If I am going to be looking at expeditions again, I have wait until my kids can get themselves in by themselves, and pay off the expedition and then buy the TT.

Part of the confusion is what exactly is included in the "Factory options". I don't know if someone here has the actual FACTS on that but my "Feeling" is that it may not include the AC, Propane tank, battery, removable cabinets and/or furniture, sewage hose or spare tire (I may be wrong about all or part of that). I even question if it includes the furnace, fridge, water heater and toilet.

You are correct in wondering how I have over 1200# in my trailer. I did not weigh it empty but I am sure that we don't have 1200# in camping gear, extra battery, inverter, AC, generator and extra propane tank. What I do know for a FACT is that it weighed 4103# when we had it weighed. I have since removed some items and we no longer put anything on the floor while towing. We put everything we can in the TV. I think that I now have it below 4000# but I'm going to weigh it again.

Don't let people (even me) get you frustrated. Try to work from Facts. You've done a good job of obtaining the facts on your TV and I hope that you may now have a better understanding of those facts. The GCWR and Tow Rating are 2 separate and individual ratings. No one separate rating on a vehicle should be looked at alone.

When you start listening to "Opinions" is where your confusion may come in. You are on the right track. The last "Opinion" that should be considered is that of someone that is trying to sell something. Ask them to "Put it in writing" and see how fast that opinion changes......