GFCI help

Hi all!

Technical help requested.

We have a 2012 2720 (last off line prior to closing/reopening) which has been in our possession since June 2011. We camped all last year no problems. It has been in garage storage Oct - April in NH.

We pulled it out 3 weeks ago - connected it to shore power, no issues. All elecrical systems go. I just got propane filled yesterday and all propane systems go - hot water heater, furnace, shore water pressure...all good.

Kids went to sleep in it (per usual) with electric heater on (habit, since propane hadn't been filled), clock plugged in. Somewhere between 9 pm - 8 am the GFCI tripped and the indoor outlets no longer work. The GFCI feels "spongy" and will not reset.

What have we checked?

Fuses - replaced (although not necessary, I now know)
Shore outlet - works
Connector plug - works
Extension cord - works

Removed GFCI outlet, and 2 black wires were not connected; we connected those, and when we reconnected shore power we briefly heard a fan noise near the main circuit box/no outlet power at all, no GFCI reset.

(BTW, no external outlets work either)

I just saw on the board that a blown water heater element can cause GFCI to trip - too dark to check that now, but I will.

ALSO - we did have mice in the camper much to our dismay. Investigation reveals no obvious damage, and due to food left over (we found the food source and no cushions destroyed) it appears they were in there a week or two max.

Why would the outlets stop overnight?

Mice were known
Water was tested yesterday 2pm and drained (low drains) 9pm; it has rained 2/3 weeks since we pulled it out and the camper has been set up.

Any and all suggestions are welcome.

I will check the water heater element tomorrow; I am prepared to replace that GFCI outlet if needed. If these 2 fail, then probably back to dealer for mice damage inspection...

Thanks in advance for any / all suggestions

bigd13

[wbmiller3]

You can get an inexpensive tester for AC outlets. It looks sort of like a plug cut off the end of a cord, and plugs into the outlet just like one. It has 3 lights and the pattern of the lights tells you if the outlet is good, or if not, what the problem is. (The way to decode the lights is written on the device.) This is a very useful thing for troubleshooting problems.

If I were in your shoes, the first thing I would do is use this tester on the outlet that the camper is plugged into (this will require an adapter because the tester does not fit the 30 amp receptacle - but you need to carry this adapter anyway). This will tell you if the trouble is in the camper or in the campground.

Couple of things.
If the electric switch on the water heater was on when you plugged the TM into shore power and the water heater was empty, you burned up the element and could cause the GFCI to trip. Check the GFCI, the TM is wired (110V) such that all the outlets are protected by the the one GFCI by the convertor. The fan you heard was most likely the fan in the convertor that runs when is under load. Here is a link on connecting the GFCI properly
http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35720244

[HIKERZ]

The water heater element would also be my first check

I will check the water heater element tomorrow - is there an easy way to do this?

I do find it odd, however, that electric power was lost GFCI tripped 7+ hours AFTER I did a system check, including the water heater (which was checked per protocol - running water through hot and cold, THEN firing up the water heater with hot results) ... don't get me wrong, a water heater element seems like a (relatively) easy fix vs mouse issues, so I'll take it!

I will try that and report back.

Thanks,

bigd13

Before removing the element just remove the 2 wires from it and keep them covered with tape for safety, now try your power and if the system works ok, pull the element as it is bad.

Thanks, Dave - I knew there was a (relatively) simple way to test this.

Tomorrow, after meetings!

Thanks, all.

bigd13

[mjlaupp]

bigd13,

You talk about removing the GFCI outlet since this is the one that won't reset.

Have you checked and reset the GFCI circuit breaker in the 110 vac power distribution panel? When it trips, it takes out all internal and external 110 vac outlets except the one for the refrigerator that is behind the upper fridge vent.

Where do the 2 black wires go that you re-connected?

There was never a trip of the main circuit breaker, but we have reset it multiple times regardles...I wish it were so simple!

I was actually hoping I HAD burned out the water heater - also simple!

Black wires - not sure, truthfully, as husband was the one mucking around in there...I am a Physical Therapist and he is a high tech computer programmer, we are so NOT electricians! I am having an electrician friend come tomorrow to recheck all outlets and potentially replace GFCI, look at schematics with me so we can narrow it down. He can just help me understand the wiring better, but I will save any further investigation for the dealer due to quirks and potential for warranty work needing to be done, if we can't fix it tomorrow.

I do understand that it is "not likely" GFCI is bad since this is a new trailer, but all things do break, especially things with small plastic parts, so I figure that testing/replacing it is not a bad idea as long as the tester/replacer knows what he is doing. At the very least, if we know that the outlet isn't the issue, we are one step closer to finding what IS.

AND, if we can't fix the outlet soon...well, we'll just "camp"! Everything else works, just not the outlets, so all I cannot do is charge my phone. I'll go back to the old days of charging it in the van. We do coffee on the stove, clock has back up batteries...so no hardship while the saga continues. We don't bring TV or any portable devices camping; that's why we camp - to get away and have social interaction, let the boys play and be boys. We really don't use the outlets.


Thanks again, updates tomorrow!

[Bill]

A bad water heater element will not cause the GFCI in the camper to trip. They are independent. It will cause the GFCI on the power post (or in the garage, or whatever) to trip, but this does not seem to be the problem.

A GFCI outlet will feel spongy when you try to reset it if there is a continuing problem. I assume that you have disconnected all loads from every outlet, and then tried to reset it? If it is still spongy, then there is a problem somewhere in the trailer wiring.

Have you disconnected shore power entirely and tried to reset it? If it is still spongy, it is bad and needs to be replaced.

Just as a thought, and please take no offense - a GFCI outlet has two buttons. The TEST button will always feel spongy. I'm sure you are describing the RESET button when you say "spongy", right?

Bill