In search of 2417 or 2518

[Wavery]

Originally Posted by Dan3023

You're reaching now man. The bags aren't even 5 pounds, I just put some in a truck. They are also not being carried by the suspension like a WDH is. Also, why do you guys keep saying the vehicle is towing above the capacity? Why would you put bags on your vehicle instead of a WDH? If your truck sags then you must be towing above its capacity too. I hope that last statement helps you to see what I am saying. It's not like they are wanting to pull a 10,000 pound trailer with a 5,000 pound limit. I really don't understand why you guys are trying to say bags are bad in this situation. Again, the camper falls well within the tow limits of the vehicle. It will not be unsafe to use bags.

The OP has a 2020 Kia Sorento V6. From what I can see, max payload on that vehicle is around 1500#. The OP is obviously concerned.

The tongue weight on a 2619 or even a 2417 will exceed 300# if it has air conditioning, awning, propane tanks etc. I've never seen a TM that has actual scale tongue wt under 300#.

No one is saying that air bags are "bad". The OP needs to understand that they do not increase the carrying capacity of the vehicle. The air bags are simply added weight (whatever that is), just like sleeping bags, ice chest, BBQ etc etc..... it all adds up and it adds weight to the rear axle.

We don't even know if what the actual specs are on the OP's vehicle. It's all listed in his owners manual. If the vehicle has sufficient payload and rear axle weight capacity to handle his total added weight, he should be fine.

It the OP's vehicle has significant rear sag and front lift, that's a pretty good indication that things aren't fine because he will lose braking and steering advantage due to a lack of weight to the front wheels. Air bags do not resolve that issue.

[Dan3023]

I was going by my mother in laws 2020 Sorento that has a 5,000 pound limit. I do see now that they go from 2,000-5,000. Still though, the bags add less weight than a WDH.

[Shane826]

2,000-5,000lbs PAYLOAD or TOW CAPACITY? 5,000lb is higher payload than a Ram 2500.

[Bill]

Dan -

You keep asking "What harm do airbags do?"

My thought is that the vehicle manufacturer sets weight limits that won't damage the vehicle - wheel bearings, springs, shocks, rubber bumpers, etc. That's his job. And as long as you stay within the manufacture's weight limits, I agree that you won't damage the vehicle. But that is not the issue. The harm caused by airbags is that they mislead the driver. Because the vehicle is level as always, he feels that he still has his accustomed steering and braking performance - until suddenly he doesn't. And when he discovers that he doesn't, things go to hell in hurry because the trailer begins controlling the car instead of the other way around. And that leads to great harm.

Remember that most vehicles carry their weight in roughly a 60-40 weight ratio - more in the front because that's where all of the steering and most of the braking happen. When the front end is unloaded, the effect on steering and braking is more than proportional. And a short-wheelbase vehicle experiences even more unloading than a longer vehicle, because of the shorter front-to-back-to-hitch lever arm. And air bags don't change any of that.

For what it's worth, I have experienced this myself in a tow vehicle that was considerably bigger and higher-rated than a Sorrento. For various reasons, one day I hooked up my TM with a simple bumper hitch, all weights well within specs. I set off on a lonely paved road in northeastern Arizona - lots of twists and turns and dips and humps, but nothing particularly dangerous. But as I was driving, I noticed that the vehicle felt a bit twitchy or squirrelly. No lurching or swerving, just - - - different, and kind of uncomfortable. That was the effect of unloading the front wheels. The next day, I hooked up again using my WDH, and the twitchy-squirrelly-ness was gone. Even though I was well within the manufacture's weight specs, I don't think I would have been willing to drive that road in a short tow vehicle.

If you are willing to take that risk, it is your choice. As I said earlier, we will agree to disagree. But I'm not sure you should be advising new drivers to use airbags without laying out the entire story.

Bill

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by Wavery

The OP has a 2020 Kia Sorento V6. From what I can see, max payload on that vehicle is around 1500#. The OP is obviously concerned.

The tongue weight on a 2619 or even a 2417 will exceed 300# if it has air conditioning, awning, propane tanks etc. I've never seen a TM that has actual scale tongue wt under 300#.

No one is saying that air bags are "bad". The OP needs to understand that they do not increase the carrying capacity of the vehicle. The air bags are simply added weight (whatever that is), just like sleeping bags, ice chest, BBQ etc etc..... it all adds up and it adds weight to the rear axle.

We don't even know if what the actual specs are on the OP's vehicle. It's all listed in his owners manual. If the vehicle has sufficient payload and rear axle weight capacity to handle his total added weight, he should be fine.

It the OP's vehicle has significant rear sag and front lift, that's a pretty good indication that things aren't fine because he will lose braking and steering advantage due to a lack of weight to the front wheels. Air bags do not resolve that issue.

While I appreciate the concerns, I am "doing my homework" based on anecdotal experiences and understand about the engineering units involved, having gone to West Point for Civil Engineering and working in a related engineering field for the last 33 years. I also understand that airbags don't increase the carrying capacity, unless you counter the angle to load variance from reducing sag, but it's not enough to worry about calculating and is negligent for real world applications. As to sag, nearly every new vehicle not specifically designed with a high load rating will have sag due to the springs (ride height) designed for comfort with an average (not maximum) load. Airbags simply correct that design. Many vehicles today are designed for the masses and not the small percentage who actually use them for what they were originally designed. This is our 3rd and last Sorento, the first had a full frame and solid axle, and it was a beast towing and off-road. The last generation was less utility and more comfort, and this new generation is all comfort and nearly no utility. We bought it due to experiences with the other two, which was an error on our part. Still, it's what we have and what we will use.

The 2417/2518 has a dry hitch weight between 295 and 320 pounds, and with the additions I know it'll increase. But I also know those weights can be adjusted by counterbalancing the weight to the rear of the trailer or distributing it accordingly (torque). It's easy to do figuring length differential and weight bias...and I know about the trailer axle capacity, which we'll stay under. We were avid backpackers and have ultralight equipment, so I'm not concerned about freighting it like a land barge.

The Sorento has a hitch capacity of 350 pounds and a tow weight of 5,000#, as per the manual. I try to stay within recommended tolerances despite knowing the safety factor involved is 1.5 to 2.0 depending on the vehicle (everything produced has a safety factor). That being said, I am not worrying about the capacity down to the pound but understand the reasoning behind the limits and don't like to take unnecessary chances. I've also read about people towing a 2720 with their Sorento without reported problems, which I would not do.

We have never owned a camping trailer before, always tent camping. We recently moved to Arizona from Maine and enjoy the weather more, but as we get older (my wife just retired) we find the creature comforts more alluring. Combine that with the wild weather we now encounter and having a solid roof over our heads is our desire. I looked at a Gulf Stream Aero Lite but the table and benches double as a bed and that would just be a pain for even a few days. I like the idea of the beds in the TM's and it checks all the boxes for our desires.

So I thank those that have and continue to chime in. Rest assured, I factor everything into my decision making paradigm and the more data the better and I thank you all for your insight.